In article
,
() wrote:

On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC), the
remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following
shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town tucked
away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still awaiting
First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another
fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being
transferred to NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s
returning to FCC, where they would be (relatively) common with
the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of the
317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are a
couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt
via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original destination
displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport
services - and I don't know that there passed to work the airport
anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for the
Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto Enfield
Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route when they ran to
Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA wouldn't
want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they are getting that
many from LM.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mar 24, 1:36*am, wrote:
In article
,





() wrote:
On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC), the
remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following
shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town tucked
away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still awaiting
First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another
fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not being
transferred to NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s
returning to FCC, where they would be (relatively) common with
the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of the
317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are a
couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt
via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original destination
displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport
services - and I don't know that there passed to work the airport
anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for the
Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto Enfield
Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route when they ran to
Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting the
321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is DfT
involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA wouldn't
want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they are getting that
many from LM.


ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty to
allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA to
cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC (5 units is hardly
a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

In article
,
() wrote:

On Mar 24, 1:36*am, wrote:
In article
,

() wrote:
On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC),
the remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following
shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town
tucked away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still awaiting
First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another
fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not
being transferred to NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s
returning to FCC, where they would be (relatively) common with
the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of
the 317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are
a couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt
via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original destination
displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport
services - and I don't know that there passed to work the airport
anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for
the Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto
Enfield Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route
when they ran to Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting
the 321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is
DfT involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA
wouldn't want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they are
getting that many from LM.

ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty to
allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA to
cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC (5 units is hardly
a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

I'm fairly sure FCC are ending up with only 5 units.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
news
In article

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA
wouldn't want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they
are
getting that many from LM.

ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty
to
allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA to
cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC (5 units is hardly
a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

I'm fairly sure FCC are ending up with only 5 units.

According to Q2 at
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...&iForum Id=15
FCC are getting 5 units for the May timetable change and then a further
5 units by December.

Peter Smyth

On Mar 24, 7:13*pm, wrote:
In article
,





() wrote:
On Mar 24, 1:36*am, wrote:
In article
,

() wrote:
On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404 IIRC),
the remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC should be following
shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town
tucked away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still awaiting
First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing another
fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the 321/4s are not
being transferred to NXEA in return for a handful of their 317s
returning to FCC, where they would be (relatively) common with
the home fleet, still escapes me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back of
the 317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX. There are
a couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or Cheshunt
via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original destination
displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the Airport
services - and I don't know that there passed to work the airport
anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built for
the Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't goto
Enfield Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that route
when they ran to Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why there
couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA would still
have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance issues. Splitting
the 321 fleet into so many bits seems short-sighted, but as it is
DfT involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA
wouldn't want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they are
getting that many from LM.

ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty to
allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA to
cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC *(5 units is hardly
a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

I'm fairly sure FCC are ending up with only 5 units.


A quick google for 'class 321 cascade' bought up the following
powerpoint from DfT (Jan 2008)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rollingstock/hlosseminartalk.ppt

Page 19 says 10 321s to FCC, 10 to c2c (which I'd forgotten) and 17 to
NXEA. I think you might have missed the fact that FCC get two tranches
of 5 each, as mentioned in this word file from FCC (Sep 2008)

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/content/doc/cms/
Cambridge_Capacity_Study_Q%26A_Sep08.doc

which says 5 x 321s by May 2009 with a further 5 x 321s hoped for by
December 2009 (both dependant on deliveries of other stock)

In article
,
() wrote:

On Mar 24, 7:13*pm, wrote:
In article
,

() wrote:
On Mar 24, 1:36*am, wrote:
In article
,
() wrote:
On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning.

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404
IIRC), the remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC
should be following shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town
tucked away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still
awaiting First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing
another fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the
321/4s are not being transferred to NXEA in return for a
handful of their 317s returning to FCC, where they would
be (relatively) common with the home fleet, still escapes
me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back
of the 317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX.
There are a couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or
Cheshunt via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original
destination displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the
Airport services - and I don't know that there passed to
work the airport anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built
for the Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't
goto Enfield Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that
route when they ran to Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why
there couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA
would still have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance
issues. Splitting the 321 fleet into so many bits seems short-
sighted, but as it is DfT involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA
wouldn't want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they
are getting that many from LM.

ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty
to allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA
to cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC *(5 units is
hardly a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

I'm fairly sure FCC are ending up with only 5 units.

A quick google for 'class 321 cascade' bought up the following
powerpoint from DfT (Jan 2008)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rollingstock/hlosseminartalk.ppt

Page 19 says 10 321s to FCC, 10 to c2c (which I'd forgotten) and 17 to
NXEA. I think you might have missed the fact that FCC get two tranches
of 5 each, as mentioned in this word file from FCC (Sep 2008)

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/content/doc/cms/
Cambridge_Capacity_Study_Q%26A_Sep08.doc

which says 5 x 321s by May 2009 with a further 5 x 321s hoped for by
December 2009 (both dependant on deliveries of other stock)

I only heard about the 5 from Elaine Holt.

What I don't understand is what further timetable changes they have
planned for December 2009. The new May timetable, originally planned for
December 2008, was a one-shot change, I thought. I've never heard of a
stage 2.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mar 24, 11:40*pm, wrote:
In article
,





() wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:13*pm, wrote:
In article
,

() wrote:
On Mar 24, 1:36*am, wrote:
In article
,
() wrote:
On 23 Mar, 15:40, "Q" ..@.. wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

wrote:

I also noticed a 321 in FCC livery at Hornsey this morning..

The first one was finished a couple of weeks ago (321 404
IIRC), the remainder of the small sub-batch for FCC
should be following shortly.

It was sat in the yard the other night on my way out to town
tucked away on a middle road

I saw it at Hornsey this morning. It's painted blue but still
awaiting First vinyls.

It still seems a ridiculous solution to me, introducing
another fleet for Hornsey to maintain. Why all of the
321/4s are not being transferred to NXEA in return for a
handful of their 317s returning to FCC, where they would
be (relatively) common with the home fleet, still escapes
me!

Indeed - and us over at Liv St. We would love to see the back
of the 317's since they are in a state again thanks to NX.
There are a couple of problems though.

321's have never been passed to work to Enfield Town or
Cheshunt via Southbury AFAIK.

They were first introduced on those routes! The original
destination displays included Cambridge Parkway.

They would have to spend money on any new 321's for the
Airport services - and I don't know that there passed to
work the airport anyway.

I'm sure that they are passed for Cheshunt via Southbury, as the
profile and equipment is the same as the Class 322 units built
for the Stansted Express. I'd also be surprised if they couldn't
goto Enfield Town, as 322s would have been surveyed for that
route when they ran to Stansted.

As FCC are only getting 10 class 321 units, I don't see why
there couldn't be a cascade of only 9-10 317s from NXEA, NXEA
would still have plenty of 317s if there are route clearance
issues. Splitting the 321 fleet into so many bits seems short-
sighted, but as it is DfT involved, we shouldn't be surprised.

ITYF that FCC are only getting 5 units. The trouble is that NXEA
wouldn't want to part with as many as 12 321s. i don;t think they
are getting that many from LM.

ITYF that LM are giving up 27 321s (at least, the original plan was
for 30) to a combination of NXEA and FCC, so there should be plenty
to allow either FCC to cascade all their 317s to NXEA or for NXEA
to cascade the necessary 317s to FCC instead of 321s.

I've seen units 401-410 mentioned as going to FCC *(5 units is
hardly a viable fleet size for FCC operation)

I'm fairly sure FCC are ending up with only 5 units.

A quick google for 'class 321 cascade' bought up the following
powerpoint from DfT (Jan 2008)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rollingstock/hlosseminartalk.ppt

Page 19 says 10 321s to FCC, 10 to c2c (which I'd forgotten) and 17 to
NXEA. I think you might have missed the fact that FCC get two tranches
of 5 each, as mentioned in this word file from FCC (Sep 2008)

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/content/doc/cms/
Cambridge_Capacity_Study_Q%26A_Sep08.doc

which says 5 x 321s by May 2009 with a further 5 x 321s hoped for by
December 2009 (both dependant on deliveries of other stock)

I only heard about the 5 from Elaine Holt.

What I don't understand is what further timetable changes they have
planned for December 2009. The new May timetable, originally planned for
December 2008, was a one-shot change, I thought. I've never heard of a
stage 2.


How many short formations are there? The timetable doesn't need to
change to lengthen trains and I vaguely recall talk of 12 coach peak
trains on some services.