Am Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:06:21 UTC, schrieb Neil Williams
auf uk.railway :

On 24 Mar, 09:27, "Lüko Willms" wrote:

*Do all Londoners live within the immediate vicinity of Euston Station
or St. Pancras?

No. But I'd venture that the majority of travel involving London is
people going *into* it from outside to work, not *out* of it for
leisure. So where they live is less relevant than ensuring that it is
easy to get to/from workplaces in central London.

Yeah, but that is quite irrelevant when they want to travel to
another city or another part of the country.


Cheers,
L.W.

-- -----------------------------------------------------

On 24 Mar, 16:16, "Lüko Willms" wrote:

* Yeah, but that is quite irrelevant when they want to travel to
another city or another part of the country.

You are missing the point spectacularly.

Travel *into* London for business is the most important (and largest)
market served by rail in London.

The UK is not like Germany with no particular centre. People are far
more likely to need to go *to* Central London than *from* the suburbs,
even given the population there.

Neil

Am Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:46:12 UTC, schrieb Neil Williams
auf uk.railway :

Travel *into* London for business is the most important (and largest)
market served by rail in London.

Sure, but even then, this is more than just Euston Road from Euston
Station to King's Cross, isn't it?

The UK is not like Germany with no particular centre. People are far
more likely to need to go *to* Central London than *from* the suburbs,
even given the population there.

OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center
like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where
everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road
from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow
LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis?


Cheers,
L.W.

-- -----------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:00:53 +0100, "L=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=ko Willms"
wrote:

Sure, but even then, this is more than just Euston Road from Euston
Station to King's Cross, isn't it?

Yes, but it's Central London, which is pretty much an area bounded by
the Circle Line plus a bit, give or take Canary Wharf.

OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center
like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where
everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road
from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow
LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis?

Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was
in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset
some of the gains.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mar 24, 11:38*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was
in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset
some of the gains.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

I think the headline figure of 30 minutes is a little bit misleading
in a number of ways anyway.

Consider that Old Oak Common to Solihull is almost exactly 100 miles
by the Chiltern route. Heathrow to Birmingham International station
is 104 miles by the obvious motorway route. About 5 miles of that is
getting from the M25 to terminals 123 at Heathrow. Willesden
Junction to Birmingham International is 99 miles by the WCML. I
think it’s fair to assume that it’s at least 98 miles from a station
in the Old Oak Common area to a motorway parkway station southeast of
Birmingham. Assume that the train averages 210 mph for the entire
journey. That's 28 minutes right there. That's before you allow
time for the train starting at OOC or stopping at the airport
parkway. I'll leave it to others to comment on whether 210 mph
average is believeable, but I suspect that it's overly optimistic
since it's more than the current operational _maximum_ speed of LGV
Est.

At the Birmingham end, such a parkway station is well located for
those arriving by car, but I’m less convinced about its suitability
for those continuing by public transport, or for those who actually
want to access central Birmingham. Virgin’s trains take an addition
12 minutes to reach New Street from Birmingham international, and
Chiltern’s are timed at 12 minutes from Solihull to Moor Street.
Admittedly in the latter case, the time includes the station dwell
time Solihull. If, as is suggested, you intend to use European
style double deck stock, you either need to build a new line into
central Birmingham, or you need to improve the existing lines, or
passengers will have to change trains. Allowing for some dwell time
at the parkway station, it’s probably 45 minutes to central Birmingham
from OOC. It’s also worth pointing out that the current Virgin
service is 1:10 to Birmingham International. I suspect [without much
real evidence] that with a little more tweaking, 140mph running, and
non-stop service, Virgin could get the Euston-Birmingham International
service below an hour.

At the London end, much depends on whether (as the article seems to
suggest) the OOC station is a terminus, or there is onward service to
central London. In the latter case, Javelin timings from Stratford
(7 minutes) plus time for a station stop suggest that journeys into
central London would require at least another 10 minutes. That gives
a center to center time around 55 minutes. If it’s a terminus, you
are stuck with onward journeys via Crossrail or the WLL. The WLL
offers infrequent services to not much of anywhere. So it’s fair to
say that unless you are going somewhere well served by Crossrail, or
you happen to be trying to get to the Old Oak Common area your journey
from OOC to your destination is going to be longer than it is today
from Euston. Moreover, Euston to Tottenham Court Road is likely to
have a journey time similar to that from OOC to TCR on Crossrail, so
service to the docklands isn’t going to be any better. Notable
destinations that are likely to see significant increases in London
local journey times are Victoria, Westminster, Euston and Kings Cross.

I think I'd rather have the most reliable train service in the world
than the fastest...
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney UK
http://claremont.islandblogging.co.uk

Am Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:38:41 UTC, schrieb
(Neil Williams) auf uk.railway :

OK, I got that point. But does London have one particular center
like one place or street crossing where everything happens and where
everybody wants or has to go? Don't people who arrive at Euston Road
from somewhere north do not have to use "the creakingly slow
LUL/LOROL", buses, or taxis?

Yes, but (Crossrail aside, which is a good point if the terminus was
in the west) they will have to use it for longer, which will offset
some of the gains.

How about _two_ HSLs from London to "the North",

-- one leaving central London to the West, stopping at or near
Heathrow airport, and then speeding up North to Birmingham (maybe via
Oxford);

-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at
Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead
airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds.

The two lines would be linked together with a central station
underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The
Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to
the North.


Cheers,
L.W.

-- -----------------------------------------------------

On 25 Mar, 20:22, "Lüko Willms" wrote:

(snip)

* How about _two_ HSLs from London to "the North",

-- one leaving central London to the West, stopping at or near
Heathrow airport, and then speeding up North to Birmingham (maybe via
Oxford);

-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at
Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead
airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds.

* The two lines would be linked together with a central station
underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The
Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to
the North.


Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line,
water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston
Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed
at their new-ish location too.

Am Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:48:43 UTC, schrieb Mizter T
auf uk.railway :

* The two lines would be linked together with a central station
underneath Euston Road between Euston Station and King's Cross... The
Eastern branch would have a direct link coming from Ebbsfleet Int'l to
the North.

Excellent. Not quite sure what happens to the evicted Circle/Met line,
water and gas mains and sewer that currently reside underneath Euston
Road. I'm pretty sure the British Library is fairly firmly installed
at their new-ish location too.

To avoid the catastrophy of the Cologne Historical Archive which
fell into the underground building site for a underground line...

I think the British Library is a further back from the road, though.


Cheers,
L.W.


-- -----------------------------------------------------

On 25/03/09 20:22, Lüko Willms wrote:
-- the other one leaving central London to the East, stopping at
Stratfort Int'l, then turning North with a station at Stanstead
airport, Cambridge, and then Leeds.

You've missed out both the East Midlands and South Yorkshire.

Roger