wrote in message ...
Nick Catford seems to have added a shed load more photos of broad street
as was. Quite interesting not just for the railway itself but because you
can see the slow change in the City as the towers go up during the 70s.

If Broad street was still open today would it be a useful way of relieving
passenger and train congestion on other lines and termini? I assume when
it
was demonlished it wasn't serving much useful purpose but then back then
the city had less people working in it. Would they be able to get away
with
demolishing it today?


Broad Street was a useless station because the only lines that could run to
it were Richmond and Watford. It took up far too much space for the small
number of people that arrived there.

When they demolished it, they routed the Richmond trains to Stratford (and
later to N Woolwich) to create the "modern NLL and built the Graham Road
curve (into LST) for the rush hour only Watford services. After a few years
they gave up with the latter.

Before the Richmond services were diverted to Stratford, there was no
service on this part of the line

So yes, they could close it now!

tim

"tim....." wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...
Nick Catford seems to have added a shed load more photos of broad street
as was. Quite interesting not just for the railway itself but because you
can see the slow change in the City as the towers go up during the 70s.

If Broad street was still open today would it be a useful way of
relieving
passenger and train congestion on other lines and termini? I assume when
it
was demonlished it wasn't serving much useful purpose but then back then
the city had less people working in it. Would they be able to get away
with
demolishing it today?


Broad Street was a useless station because the only lines that could run
to it were Richmond and Watford. It took up far too much space for the
small number of people that arrived there.

When they demolished it, they routed the Richmond trains to Stratford (and
later to N Woolwich) to create the "modern NLL and built the Graham Road
curve (into LST) for the rush hour only Watford services. After a few
years they gave up with the latter.

Before the Richmond services were diverted to Stratford, there was no
service on this part of the line

So yes, they could close it now!

tim

And what about the trains that used to come from the Great Northern lines.
As for the distasterous service into Liverpool St. Was it downgraded to just
one train in the morning and one in the evening. Hardly surprising no sane
person used it and hey presto there was the justification to stop running
it. Just like post Beeching.

Kevin

"zen83237" wrote in message
...

"tim....." wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...
Nick Catford seems to have added a shed load more photos of broad street
as was. Quite interesting not just for the railway itself but because
you
can see the slow change in the City as the towers go up during the 70s.

If Broad street was still open today would it be a useful way of
relieving
passenger and train congestion on other lines and termini? I assume when
it
was demonlished it wasn't serving much useful purpose but then back then
the city had less people working in it. Would they be able to get away
with
demolishing it today?


Broad Street was a useless station because the only lines that could run
to it were Richmond and Watford. It took up far too much space for the
small number of people that arrived there.

When they demolished it, they routed the Richmond trains to Stratford
(and later to N Woolwich) to create the "modern NLL and built the Graham
Road curve (into LST) for the rush hour only Watford services. After a
few years they gave up with the latter.

Before the Richmond services were diverted to Stratford, there was no
service on this part of the line

So yes, they could close it now!

tim

And what about the trains that used to come from the Great Northern lines.

These were removed before my time. My Baker from the period just before BS
was closed, shows this route as not possible at that time.

I have also discovered from a 1940 map, that the stations: Dalston to
Stratford had a service into BS via a Dalston East curve. This (service)
had gone by 1953, not sure when the curve was lifted.

As for the distasterous service into Liverpool St. Was it downgraded to
just one train in the morning and one in the evening.

6 trains a day, rush hours only, but IIRC it wasn't any different to the BS
service provided at closure, it just took 15 minutes longer and people
stopped using it because changing onto the Met at Wembley Park was quicker.

I also think that the change in the nature of city jobs from strict 9 to 5
must have had an effect on usage!

tim

tim..... wrote:
"zen83237" wrote in message
...

And what about the trains that used to come from the Great Northern
lines.

These were removed before my time. My Baker from the period just
before BS was closed, shows this route as not possible at that time.

Really? It would still be possible today. Head up the GN, turn left at
Finsbury Park, up Canonbury curve, then east down the North London line and
branch off at Dalston up to Broad Street.

That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

On 31/3/09 23:07, in article , "Jack
Taylor" wrote:

tim..... wrote:
"zen83237" wrote in message
...

And what about the trains that used to come from the Great Northern
lines.

These were removed before my time. My Baker from the period just
before BS was closed, shows this route as not possible at that time.

Really? It would still be possible today. Head up the GN, turn left at
Finsbury Park, up Canonbury curve, then east down the North London line and
branch off at Dalston up to Broad Street.

That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

The line was closed for a time while the track through the tunnel was
singled to provide clearance for electrification, but I can't remember when
this was.

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:07:02 +0100
"Jack Taylor" wrote:
That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

A missed opportunity if ever there was one. It could have provided a cross
platform link for FCC & ECML passengers to docklands and the south london
lines and vice verca. Its utterly absurd this wasn't forced through.

B2003

On Apr 1, 10:27*am, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:07:02 +0100

"Jack Taylor" wrote:
That's why they were proposing Finsbury Park as a terminus for some ELLX
services at one time.

A missed opportunity if ever there was one. It could have provided a cross
platform link for FCC & ECML passengers to docklands and the south london
lines and vice verca. Its utterly absurd this wasn't forced through.


There is a fundamental issue with this though that many people simply
fail to comprehend. IIRC this stretch of the NLL is currently three
tracks, but it will become four tracks. The ELLX trains will run on
the southern pair of tracks at this point, with the NLL passenger
trains and freight on the northern pair. The Canonbury Curve tunnel is
to the north of the NLL alignment - if ELLX trains were to run up to
Canonbury they'd have to cross the NLL passenger and freight tracks on
the level, i.e. a massively conflicting movement.

The only way to deal with it would be some sort of grade separated
junction to take the ELLX trains over the NLL tracks to the Canonbury
curve. That's *far* easier said than done - the NLL alignment here is
in a cutting surrounded by housing on both sides, and there's a bridge
carrying Highbury Grove to contend with as well. I suppose a grade
separated junction might have been possible in the stretch between
Wallace Road and Highbury Grove where the cutting is a bit wider (this
is where Canonbury station is sited). Nonetheless it'd be far from an
easy task.

Anyway, you speak about it being "utterly absurd this wasn't forced
through" - well the fact the whole ELLX project has actually happened
is amazing enough. Trying to add a very expensive extra such as a
grade separated junction here was likely seen as being beyond the
realms of the possible.

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 03:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
Mizter T wrote:
to the north of the NLL alignment - if ELLX trains were to run up to
Canonbury they'd have to cross the NLL passenger and freight tracks on
the level, i.e. a massively conflicting movement.

Last time I used the NLL I didn't notice trains queuing up on the tracks.
More like people queueing up waiting for anything to show up so I can't
see how a train once every 10 or 15 minutes or so crossing a few other
tracks would cause much if any conflict. Even if the full service couldn't
have run as far as finsbury I don't see why a reduced service couldn't have
continued from highbury. Surely better than the inevitable sardine
situation thats going to happen on the Moorgate and Victoria lines once the
northern ELLX opens.

Anyway, you speak about it being "utterly absurd this wasn't forced
through" - well the fact the whole ELLX project has actually happened
is amazing enough. Trying to add a very expensive extra such as a

True, it does seem to be one occasion when the tight fisted bean counters
at the treasury weren't paying attention for once and this project slipped
through.

B2003

Mizter T wrote:

There is a fundamental issue with this though that many people simply
fail to comprehend. IIRC this stretch of the NLL is currently three
tracks, but it will become four tracks. The ELLX trains will run on
the southern pair of tracks at this point, with the NLL passenger
trains and freight on the northern pair. The Canonbury Curve tunnel is
to the north of the NLL alignment - if ELLX trains were to run up to
Canonbury they'd have to cross the NLL passenger and freight tracks on
the level, i.e. a massively conflicting movement.

The only way to deal with it would be some sort of grade separated
junction to take the ELLX trains over the NLL tracks to the Canonbury
curve. That's *far* easier said than done - the NLL alignment here is
in a cutting surrounded by housing on both sides, and there's a bridge
carrying Highbury Grove to contend with as well. I suppose a grade
separated junction might have been possible in the stretch between
Wallace Road and Highbury Grove where the cutting is a bit wider (this
is where Canonbury station is sited). Nonetheless it'd be far from an
easy task.

Anyway, you speak about it being "utterly absurd this wasn't forced
through" - well the fact the whole ELLX project has actually happened
is amazing enough. Trying to add a very expensive extra such as a
grade separated junction here was likely seen as being beyond the
realms of the possible.

I would have liked like the NLL (passenger and freight) to have been
diverted between Canonbury and Gospel Oak to run via Finsbury Park, Parkland
Walk, Crouch Hill and Upper Holloway. Let the ELL completely take over
Canonbury - Camden Road - Gospel Oak. The NLL would be much more useful at
Finsbury Park than the ELL, since it would allow eastward and westward
connections from the Cambridge trains and Piccadilly Line. But maybe this
would put too many trains through Crouch Hill.

"Mizter T" wrote...
There is a fundamental issue with this though that many people
simply fail to comprehend. IIRC this stretch of the NLL is
currently three tracks, but it will become four tracks. The
ELLX trains will run on the southern pair of tracks at this point,
with the NLL passenger trains and freight on the northern pair.
The Canonbury Curve tunnel is to the north of the NLL
alignment - if ELLX trains were to run up to Canonbury they'd
have to cross the NLL passenger and freight tracks on the
level, i.e. a massively conflicting movement. The only way to
deal with it would be some sort of grade separated junction to
take the ELLX trains over the NLL tracks to the Canonbury
curve. That's *far* easier said than done - the NLL alignment
here is in a cutting surrounded by housing on both sides, and
there's a bridge carrying Highbury Grove to contend with as
well. I suppose a grade separated junction might have been
possible in the stretch between Wallace Road and Highbury
Grove where the cutting is a bit wider (this is where Canonbury
station is sited). Nonetheless it'd be far from an easy task.

An alternative plan that was floated but never researched in detail (AFAIK)
was to extend the DLR to Finsbury Park, using the Canonbury Curve - grade
separation for that would have been much cheaper. Such a scheme would be
impossible now, as the 'overground' will need all the capacity it can get
around there, leaving no room for a DLR track in the area.


--

Andrew

"She plays the tuba.
It is the only instrument capable
of imitating a distress call."