On Apr 7, 11:17*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 03:56:22
on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:

I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to King'sCross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to Moorgate

So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? *The Gatwick services are going to be
pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes north of
SPILL isn't the end of the world.


The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 7, 11:17 am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:

I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to
King'sCross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to Moorgate

So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going to
be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes north
of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

The eventual KO2 work to provide dedicated through routes west of, at, and
east of London Bridge should also make things speed up a bit; however the
journey should still be fairly attractive compared with a trip on the tube
to Victoria, especially with luggage - unless you conveniently ignore all
the underground walking time, and assume all the connections are instant...

Paul S

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 7, 11:17 am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:

I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to
King's Cross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to Moorgate

So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going to
be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes north
of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

The eventual KO2 work to provide dedicated through routes west of,
at, and east of London Bridge should also make things speed up a
bit; however the journey should still be fairly attractive compared
with a trip on the tube to Victoria, especially with luggage -
unless you conveniently ignore all the underground walking time,
and assume all the connections are instant...

I'm basing current estimates on observation. I got a TL train from
Brighton only to meet arriving at the same time as me at King's Cross
someone who had left Brighton after me and taken the tube from Victoria.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote on 07 April 2009 19:38:14 ...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 7, 11:17 am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:

I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to
King's Cross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to Moorgate
So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going to
be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes north
of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

The eventual KO2 work to provide dedicated through routes west of,
at, and east of London Bridge should also make things speed up a
bit; however the journey should still be fairly attractive compared
with a trip on the tube to Victoria, especially with luggage -
unless you conveniently ignore all the underground walking time,
and assume all the connections are instant...

I'm basing current estimates on observation. I got a TL train from
Brighton only to meet arriving at the same time as me at King's Cross
someone who had left Brighton after me and taken the tube from Victoria.

Did you never learn punctuation, or is there a world shortage of commas?

Having now understood what you are saying, I see that you are only
measuring the time to from Brighton to King's Cross, not the time to
Cambridge, which would not include a change at King's Cross for the
future Thameslink route, so it's not comparable. Also, as Paul Scott
pointed out, the change at Victoria is less attractive if you have
luggage for the holiday you are flying to from Gatwick.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message
, at
08:57:30 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Mizter T remarked:
The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

Part of it's the core, and part is the generally low speed on the line
to Brighton. London Bridge to Gatwick is 24 miles, timetabled currently
at 29 minutes. 100mph it ain't. (The ride is terrible, too).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:57:46
on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:
So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going
to be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes
north of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

It's about 15 minutes so we will get to Gatwick considerably quicker via
Victoria, by the look of it.

For a fit person with no luggage, perhaps.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:
I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to King's
Cross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to Moorgate

So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going
to be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes
north of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

It's about 15 minutes so we will get to Gatwick considerably quicker via
Victoria, by the look of it.

Can't use a Network Railcard discount on Gatwick Express though, and
not having to do the Tube with luggage is nice.

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote on 07 April 2009 19:38:14 ...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 7, 11:17 am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009,
remarked:

I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to
King's Cross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to
Moorgate
So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going to
be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes north
of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge
to East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink
core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

The eventual KO2 work to provide dedicated through routes west of,
at, and east of London Bridge should also make things speed up a
bit; however the journey should still be fairly attractive compared
with a trip on the tube to Victoria, especially with luggage -
unless you conveniently ignore all the underground walking time,
and assume all the connections are instant...

I'm basing current estimates on observation. I got a TL train
from Brighton only to meet arriving at the same time as me at
King's Cross someone who had left Brighton after me and taken the
tube from Victoria.

Did you never learn punctuation, or is there a world shortage of commas?

Pah!

Having now understood what you are saying, I see that you are only
measuring the time to from Brighton to King's Cross, not the time
to Cambridge, which would not include a change at King's Cross for
the future Thameslink route, so it's not comparable. Also, as
Paul Scott pointed out, the change at Victoria is less attractive
if you have luggage for the holiday you are flying to from Gatwick.

Yes, I realise that.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Apr 7, 9:24*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
08:57:30 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Mizter T remarked:

The Thameslink services are going to be non-stop from London Bridge to
East Croydon, then non-stop again to Gatwick - so what makes them
pretty slow south of SPILL, the trudge through the 'Thameslink core'?
I'm kind of expecting that the core section will pick up some speed
after (at least some of) the works have been done.

Part of it's the core, and part is the generally low speed on the line
to Brighton. London Bridge to Gatwick is 24 miles, timetabled currently
at 29 minutes. 100mph it ain't.

No, but it's the same journey duration as the Gatwick Express (and
Thameslink trains manage to fit in a stop at Croydon too). But I see
now that essentially I think your looking at the Brighton main line in
the eyes of an ECML and/or MML passenger.

(The ride is terrible, too).

Is it really? Or is that just the 319s? I was on the Brighton main
line on an Electrostar very recently, it seemed fine to me. And I only
recall the GatEx being a bit rocky when negotiating points (yes, I
realise it doesn't traverse the fast lines from London Bridge to EC).

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
03:56:22 on Tue, 7 Apr 2009, remarked:
I think a plausible scenario is:
- Cambridge/King's Lynn/Peterborough fasts: 5+5 car IEP to King's
Cross
- Cambridge semi-fast/Welwyn stopping services: 12-car Thameslink
- Hertford Loop: High-frequency semi-segregated service to
Moorgate

So no useful Cambridge-Gatwick services after all. :-(

What's wrong with the semi-fasts? The Gatwick services are going
to be pretty slow from SPILL to Gatwick, so adding a few minutes
north of SPILL isn't the end of the world.

It's about 15 minutes so we will get to Gatwick considerably quicker
via Victoria, by the look of it.

Can't use a Network Railcard discount on Gatwick Express though, and
not having to do the Tube with luggage is nice.

Yes, it's a better option for Gatwick. For Brighton GatEx doesn't really
come into it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel