On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Mizter T wrote:

On Apr 13, 2:56 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

On Apr 13, 9:02 am, Tom Anderson wrote:

Er, yes. Under the teacup plan, the Circle and H&C will be merged into a
single service - there will no longer *be* H&C or
Circle-as-we-understand-it-now. Or is that not what you meant?

Not true. There will still be trains from Hammersmith that go to
Whitechapel. The trains from Hammersmith that go to Edgware Road via
Aldgate will be in *addition* to those existing trains, thus increasing
the frequency on the Hammersmith branch. I expect they'll be branded
"Circle line", whilst there's no reason to think the "Hammersmith &
City" branding will go away, either...

Indeed (pay attention at the back of the class!).

Sorry, sir. Rowland was showing me his ocarina.

tom

--
Information is not knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

On 13 Apr, 17:26, Tom Anderson wrote:
Okay, i was completely confused here.

Surely the confusion which has occurred on this group involving people
with a transport "bent" demonstrates the potential folly of unleashing
the proposal in its current form upon "normals" many of whom having
been used to the present "Circle Line" warts and all for decades.
Would the "proper" way to do it not be to expunge absolutely all
future reference to "Circle Line" and "Hammersmith and City Line" and
create a new frying-pan-shaped line which would embrace the current
circle line plus the "handle" to/from Hammersmith. This line would be
given a new name e.g. the "Elizabeth Line" with a colour not currently
featured on the underground map. The Metropolitan line service east of
Baker Street would be enhanced to replace the section of the current H
& C to Aldgate East and beyond.

--
gordon

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:02:07 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Er, yes. Under the teacup plan, the Circle and H&C will be merged into a
single service - there will no longer *be* H&C or
Circle-as-we-understand-it-now. Or is that not what you meant?

It isn't correct, though. There will still, AIUI, be H&C services to
Barking between the Circle services. The Circle going to Hammersmith
is additional services which will double the frequency on that section
of line.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, wrote:

On 13 Apr, 17:26, Tom Anderson wrote:
Okay, i was completely confused here.

Surely the confusion which has occurred on this group involving people
with a transport "bent" demonstrates the potential folly of unleashing
the proposal in its current form upon "normals"

No, i think it demonstrates that the information given to the public has
to amount to more than a few quickly-read newsgroup posts.

tom

--
Information is not knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Apr 13, 2:56 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:

On Apr 13, 9:02 am, Tom Anderson wrote:

Er, yes. Under the teacup plan, the Circle and H&C will be merged
into a single service - there will no longer *be* H&C or
Circle-as-we-understand-it-now. Or is that not what you meant?

Not true. There will still be trains from Hammersmith that go to
Whitechapel. The trains from Hammersmith that go to Edgware Road via
Aldgate will be in *addition* to those existing trains, thus
increasing the frequency on the Hammersmith branch. I expect they'll
be branded "Circle line", whilst there's no reason to think the
"Hammersmith & City" branding will go away, either...

Indeed (pay attention at the back of the class!).

Here's the March press release about the extension of the Circle line:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/11300.aspx

This is spin of which the Labour Government would be most proud. It calls
it an improved service. From where I sit it's the opposite because it ends
the through services from stations between High St and Paddington to
King's Cross and other destinations beyond Edgware Road.

For many years I have travelled between East Putney and King's Cross much
of the time wanting to limit the number of steps to be climbed. First this
was with my children in a buggy when visiting their grandparents in
Putney, then when taking a bicycle to and from there, now also with
granddaughter in buggy visiting great grandmother.

By changing at High St or Paddington to a Circle train, a same platform
interchange, this meant the only stairs to be negotiated were at East
Putney (since the King's Cross lift was installed). Changing at Edgware
Road far too often involves crossing the footbridge and the requirement
for that is unpredictable. Now it will be mandatory much of the time. :-((

The fundamental problem is that the overlap in the "Circle" loop is far
too short. If the terminating point was Aldgate or Moorgate it might be an
improvement but presumably there isn't the capacity East of Baker St.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in
:

By changing at High St or Paddington to a Circle train, a same
platform interchange, this meant the only stairs to be negotiated were
at East Putney (since the King's Cross lift was installed). Changing
at Edgware Road far too often involves crossing the footbridge and the
requirement for that is unpredictable. Now it will be mandatory much
of the time. :-((

The claim is that such changes at Edgware Road will always be cross-
platform.

I presume this will be achieved by the following layout:

Plat 1: H&C/Teacup from Paddington to Baker Street
Plat 2: Teacup from Paddington terminate
Plat 3: Wimbleware from Paddington terminate
Plat 4: H&C/Teacup from Baker Street to Paddington

Possibly with platforms 2 and 3 the other way round; but either way,
passengers who wish to go HSK/NHG/Bayswater to Baker Street or beyond
will be able to know which type of terminating train to get for a cross-
platform.

On Apr 14, 3:32*pm, James Farrar wrote:
wrote om:

By changing at High St or Paddington to a Circle train, a same
platform interchange, this meant the only stairs to be negotiated were
at East Putney (since the King's Cross lift was installed). Changing
at Edgware Road far too often involves crossing the footbridge and the
requirement for that is unpredictable. Now it will be mandatory much
of the time. :-((

The claim is that such changes at Edgware Road will always be cross-
platform.

I presume this will be achieved by the following layout:

Plat 1: H&C/Teacup from Paddington to Baker Street
Plat 2: Teacup from Paddington terminate
Plat 3: Wimbleware from Paddington terminate
Plat 4: H&C/Teacup from Baker Street to Paddington

Possibly with platforms 2 and 3 the other way round; but either way,
passengers who wish to go HSK/NHG/Bayswater to Baker Street or beyond
will be able to know which type of terminating train to get for a cross-
platform.

Is it still planned to stop half the Wimblewares at HSK off peak? If
so, the platform usage wouldn't be balanced or flexible if they were
still restricted as you suggest.

On Apr 7, 10:49 am, Mr Thant
wrote:

the east end of Edgware Road so that there's always level access to
the next onward train. Trains rarely leave the centre tracks in that
direction)

Eh ?

I have just started commuting to Edgware Road.

Every afternoon day I have seen or used a train heading east from pl.
2; and about 50/50 arriving on pl.3 from the east in the morning.

Even before that, I have always known Edgware Road EB as a place where
you if you are concerned about which train goes first you have to
watch both trains where 2 x EB stand side by side and its not always
first in first out.

I see the point about cross platforming but sorry ''trains rarely
leave the centre tracks in that direction'' is just plain wrong.


--
Nick

On Apr 14, 5:51*pm, wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:49 am, Mr Thant
wrote:

the east end of Edgware Road so that there's always level access to
the next onward train. Trains rarely leave the centre tracks in that
direction)

Eh ?

I have just started commuting to Edgware Road.

Every afternoon day I have seen or used a train heading east from pl.
2; and about 50/50 arriving on pl.3 from the east in the morning.

Even before that, I have always known Edgware Road EB as a place where
you if you are concerned about which train goes first you have to
watch both trains where 2 x EB stand side by side and its not always
first in first out.

I see the point about cross platforming but sorry ''trains rarely
leave the centre tracks in that direction'' is just plain wrong.

--
Nick

With the proposed frequency of terminating, it's likely to be more
rare under the new proposals though.

On Apr 14, 5:51*pm, wrote:
Every afternoon day I have seen or used a train heading east from pl.
2; and about 50/50 arriving on pl.3 from the east in the morning.

I've never seen that, and I've spent a fair amount of time there*. I
was under the impression that the outer tracks where the through
platforms and the inner tracks were for terminating Wimblewares. I'll
have to pay closer attention in future.

(* including deliberately loitering while on the look out for the two
"brand new" carriages that were rebuilt from those lost on 7/7)

U