On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:18 +0100 (BST), (Peter Beale)
wrote:

In article , are (Acrosticus) wrote:

My information is that on LT trams and trolleybuses they ended in 1950.
Following a public outcry though they were introduced on LT buses (both
Central
and Country) in 1952 under the rather less proletarian title of "Early
Morning
Returns". When EMRs finished I don't know however.

Are you sure about the returns bit? To my knowledge from travelling on central buses throughout the 1950s return tickets were never issued -
I think they were Early Morning Singles.

And identified by fare code EMS on Gibson ticket machines? We always
wondered what these were for.

In article , (Ken Wheatley) wrote:

And identified by fare code EMS on Gibson ticket machines? We always
wondered what these were for.

Probably. In my day they were proper tickets, pretty colours and punched by the conductor!

--
Peter Beale

Workemens tickets originated, as far as I know, when Liverpool St
station was built in London (about 1870?)

The station required demolition of a huge amount of cheap slum
housing, causing a public outcry, and a demand that the railway be
forced to do something in compensation for displacing all those low
income people. The result was cheap commuting tickets from new cheap
housing built up the line. The previous train users didn't really
welcome all those unwashed people on their trains, so the tickets
were timed so that the new users would have to travel at a different
time from the middle classes.

Jeremy Parker

On 1 Oct 2003 07:58:27 -0700, Rizla Ranger UK wrote in
, seen in
uk.transport.buses:

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

In Birmingham, night services ran on the main radial routes from the
city centre on an hourly basis regardless of the frequency of the
daytime service.


What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?

Again, for Birmingham:
23.30 - 04.30 Sun/Mon - Fri/Sat, 23.30 - 06.30 Sat/Sun.
Fares were (roughly) 50% higher than daytime services.


During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?

Cheap rate return tickets for pretty much anyone arriving at their
destination before 08.30 or some other specified time. Some operators
specified that office types (i.e. those who wore shirts and ties
instead of work clothes such as overalls) weren't entitled to those
fares.

The actual rates varied and on Midland Red, for example, a Workman's
Return at times cost little less than two single tickets - but at that
time Midland Red didn't generally issue return tickets and presumably
it was easier for the workers to keep hold of a bus ticket than not
spend the bus fare for the return journey...

AFAIK Workmen's Tickets were mostly withdrawn by the end of the 1960s.
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce

(Rizla Ranger UK) wrote in message . com...
Hola all

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?

During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?

Finally, during this period, which were the most common
buses to see throughout East and Central London?

Many thanks for any help you can give.

Apologies for the crosspost

please reply to group
______________________

I used buses in the West Midlands during the 1940/50s.

Workmen's tickets were certainly in use on Wolverhampton Corporation
transport. They were cheap, and I'm pretty certain, return tickets to
be used for the outward journey before 8am. I think they were
available to all.

Birmingham Corporation ran a night service but only on certain routes.
There was a premium fare for these. Normal services from the city
ended at 11pm. A night service ran at 11.30pm, then midnight and
hourly thereafter. Obviously the return services ran to fit in with
these times.

I suspect you may be asking about London services only but I have no
knowledge of these.

John Delaney

In article , (Rizla Ranger UK) wrote:

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

1959:

BUSES
168 Wandsworth to Farringdon Street via Clapham Junction
285 Charing Cross Underground Station (now Embankment) to Downham, 2 journeys to Grove Park
286 Charing Cross (as above) to New Cross Gate
287 Charing Cross to Charing Cross via Blackfriars or Westminster (alternately), Kennington, Clapham
288 Wandworth to Farringdon Street via Battersea
289 Southall to London Bridge Stn
290 Edmonton to Pimlico
291 Willesden to Liverpool Street Stn
292 Trafalgar Square to Highgate (Archway Road)
294 Cricklewood to Liverpool Street Stn
295 Becontree Heath to Trafalgar Square
296 Leyton to Waterloo Stn
297 Turnham Green to Liverpool Street Stn
298 Hornchurch to Trafalgar Square
Inter-Station Bus (Waterloo, Victoria, Paddington, Euston, King's Cross)

TROLLEYBUSES
513 Hampstead Heath to Holborn Circus via Gray's Inn Road, returning via Farringdon Road
543 Stamford Hill to Holborn Circus via Gray's Inn Road, returning via Farringdon Road
613 Reverse of 513
630 Tooting to Hammersmith
643 Reverse of 543
665 Poplar to Bloomsbury


--
Peter Beale

Many thanks for all your help, guys!

Very informative replies.


The questions were in relation to a small family
history project, and I will likely return to ask
some more.


But for now, what were the old LT ticket machines
on buses called? Did they have a manufacturers name
or a colloquial name? I mean the aluminium ones with
black plastic 'cog' on the side (fare selector?) and
a handle to print out the ticket. The print was usually
purple and the machines looked ancient by the late 70's
early 80's.


Again, many thanks for the responses!





Rizla Ranger UK wrote
Hola all

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's


During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?


During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?


Finally, during this period, which were the most common
buses to see throughout East and Central London?





Many thanks for any help you can give.

Apologies for the crosspost


please reply to group

"Rizla Ranger UK" wrote in message
om...

But for now, what were the old LT ticket machines
on buses called? Did they have a manufacturers name
or a colloquial name? I mean the aluminium ones with
black plastic 'cog' on the side (fare selector?) and
a handle to print out the ticket. The print was usually
purple and the machines looked ancient by the late 70's
early 80's.

That would be the Gibson machine, named after its designer. If you find
one in good condition for sale, let me know..!!

Ivor

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:40:59 +0100, Ivor Jones wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...]
That would be the Gibson machine, named after its designer. If you find
one in good condition for sale, let me know..!!

I sold two earlier this year on eBay. Both went for well in excess of
£100.

I could do you a Setright instead, though. ;-)
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce

"Ross" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:40:59 +0100, Ivor Jones wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...]
That would be the Gibson machine, named after its designer. If you find
one in good condition for sale, let me know..!!

I sold two earlier this year on eBay. Both went for well in excess of
£100.

I could do you a Setright instead, though. ;-)

Already have one of those..! Didn't think of eBay, I'll take a look.

Ivor