Hola all

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's


During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?


During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?


Finally, during this period, which were the most common
buses to see throughout East and Central London?





Many thanks for any help you can give.

Apologies for the crosspost


please reply to group

"Rizla Ranger UK" wrote in message
om...

During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?

Regarding the above, typically workmen's tickets were issued before 08:00,
and were half-price, IIRC. I took a train back in about 1947, from Ludlow to
Worcester, and we travelled on Workmen's tickets. As I was only about 14 at
the time, it just required one to leave before 08:00. No other qualification
required.

They had been available for a very long time, but I don't know when they
ceased. That was on the GWR still, I fancy. Presumably the same rules
applied elsewhere. Regarding buses, all the workmen's services I know of
charged normal fares.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

"Terry Harper" wrote in message
...
"Rizla Ranger UK" wrote in message
om...

During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?

Regarding the above, typically workmen's tickets were issued before 08:00,
and were half-price, IIRC. I took a train back in about 1947, from Ludlow
to
Worcester, and we travelled on Workmen's tickets. As I was only about 14
at
the time, it just required one to leave before 08:00. No other
qualification
required.

What a great idea. Shame we have a system now that charges double for
travel before 09:30!

In message , Rizla
Ranger UK writes

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's


During this period, were there Nightbuses?

Remember that many routes were actually operated by trams and then by
trolley-buses back in those days.

If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

In London, my 1931 timetable shows all-night trams on 9 LCC routes, from
Victoria Embankment to:
Battersea (*)
Tooting via Streatham,
Tooting via Clapham,
New Cross Gate
Downham.
Going north, from Holborn/Bloomsbury to:
Hampstead (*)
Highgate (*)
Stamford Hill
Poplar.

All half-hourly, except those marked (*) which were hourly - although
not all routes operated at precise regular intervals.

I don't know what, if any, all-night services were provided by other
companies, such as London United or the local council systems.

I don't see much sign of LGOC operating all-night buses in the 1920s,
but it is possible they had started such services by the '30s - perhaps
someone else will know.

After trolley-buses replaced trams, all-night services were maintained
on most routes (and a few new routes were introduced) - mostly hourly,
but more frequent on the Stamford Hill and Poplar (now extended to
Barking) routes. Since some of the tram routes above were replaced by
buses, I think it likely that all-night buses were in operation by now.

What times did these buses operate between

Between last tram of the normal service and first of the next morning -
roughly 01:00 to 04:45, although some routes started at around 00:15.

and was the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?

I don't have any evidence to the contrary.

During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?

Reduced-price tickets for early travel on the outward journey.

I've heard this was a special pricing system for workers in the Docks
etc.

Not especially.

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which qualified for
'workmans ticket'

No. You just had to leave for work before 08:00 in most places.

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

Often half price - a return ticket for the price of a single.

It is worth remembering that many of these all-night services operated
primarily for night workers and early-starters (those working in the
newspaper and transport industries, for example) rather than for
late-night revellers.

I suspect that workmen's tickets date back a very long way. Their origin
was probably in Gladstone's 1844 "parliamentary trains" act, which
required railway companies to transport third-class passengers for no
more than a penny a mile - this supposedly being some sort of recompense
for the thousands of low-paid workers displaced when railways tore down
inner-city properties.

Most companies fulfilled the letter of the law by running very
early-morning services for workers at these reduced rates. The bus and
tram companies adopted similar ticketing (although with a later time
limit) because they were in competition for inner-city passengers. I
don't know when workmen's tickets ended - I would guess by about 1960.

--
Paul Terry

From: Paul Terry
Date: 01/10/2003 18:23 GMT Daylight Time

I
don't know when workmen's tickets ended - I would guess by about 1960.

My information is that on LT trams and trolleybuses they ended in 1950.
Following a public outcry though they were introduced on LT buses (both Central
and Country) in 1952 under the rather less proletarian title of "Early Morning
Returns". When EMRs finished I don't know however.

On 1 Oct 2003 07:58:27 -0700, Rizla Ranger UK wrote in
, seen in
uk.transport.buses:

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

In Birmingham, night services ran on the main radial routes from the
city centre on an hourly basis regardless of the frequency of the
daytime service.


What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?

Again, for Birmingham:
23.30 - 04.30 Sun/Mon - Fri/Sat, 23.30 - 06.30 Sat/Sun.
Fares were (roughly) 50% higher than daytime services.


During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?

Cheap rate return tickets for pretty much anyone arriving at their
destination before 08.30 or some other specified time. Some operators
specified that office types (i.e. those who wore shirts and ties
instead of work clothes such as overalls) weren't entitled to those
fares.

The actual rates varied and on Midland Red, for example, a Workman's
Return at times cost little less than two single tickets - but at that
time Midland Red didn't generally issue return tickets and presumably
it was easier for the workers to keep hold of a bus ticket than not
spend the bus fare for the return journey...

AFAIK Workmen's Tickets were mostly withdrawn by the end of the 1960s.
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce

In article , (Terry Harper) wrote:

Regarding the above, typically workmen's tickets were issued before
08:00,
and were half-price, IIRC.

On LT buses the Workmen's Ticket (before 8 a.m.) was 2d flat fare. I used to get the 126 from Falconwood to Bromley South on my way to
school in the mid-1950s, and it was very useful when my bus pass was not valid for some reason: otherwise it would have cost 10d!

--
Peter Beale

(Rizla Ranger UK) wrote in message . com...
Hola all

I have questions for those with knowledge
of bus services during the 1930's - 1950's

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

What times did these buses operate between and was
the fare pricing the same as daytime operations?

During this period, what were 'Workmans Tickets'?
I've heard this was a special pricing system for
workers in the Docks etc. How did this work?

Were there a list of prescribed occupations which
qualified for 'workmans ticket' and if so, how did
you prove you qualified?

How much below the standard fare did this price fall?

When was the 'workmans ticket' introduced and when did it stop?

Finally, during this period, which were the most common
buses to see throughout East and Central London?

Many thanks for any help you can give.

Apologies for the crosspost

please reply to group
______________________

I used buses in the West Midlands during the 1940/50s.

Workmen's tickets were certainly in use on Wolverhampton Corporation
transport. They were cheap, and I'm pretty certain, return tickets to
be used for the outward journey before 8am. I think they were
available to all.

Birmingham Corporation ran a night service but only on certain routes.
There was a premium fare for these. Normal services from the city
ended at 11pm. A night service ran at 11.30pm, then midnight and
hourly thereafter. Obviously the return services ran to fit in with
these times.

I suspect you may be asking about London services only but I have no
knowledge of these.

John Delaney

In article , are (Acrosticus) wrote:

My information is that on LT trams and trolleybuses they ended in 1950.
Following a public outcry though they were introduced on LT buses (both
Central
and Country) in 1952 under the rather less proletarian title of "Early
Morning
Returns". When EMRs finished I don't know however.

Are you sure about the returns bit? To my knowledge from travelling on central buses throughout the 1950s return tickets were never issued -
I think they were Early Morning Singles.

--
Peter Beale

In article , (Rizla Ranger UK) wrote:

During this period, were there Nightbuses?
If yes, were there many, or just a few routes?
If so, what were these routes?

1959:

BUSES
168 Wandsworth to Farringdon Street via Clapham Junction
285 Charing Cross Underground Station (now Embankment) to Downham, 2 journeys to Grove Park
286 Charing Cross (as above) to New Cross Gate
287 Charing Cross to Charing Cross via Blackfriars or Westminster (alternately), Kennington, Clapham
288 Wandworth to Farringdon Street via Battersea
289 Southall to London Bridge Stn
290 Edmonton to Pimlico
291 Willesden to Liverpool Street Stn
292 Trafalgar Square to Highgate (Archway Road)
294 Cricklewood to Liverpool Street Stn
295 Becontree Heath to Trafalgar Square
296 Leyton to Waterloo Stn
297 Turnham Green to Liverpool Street Stn
298 Hornchurch to Trafalgar Square
Inter-Station Bus (Waterloo, Victoria, Paddington, Euston, King's Cross)

TROLLEYBUSES
513 Hampstead Heath to Holborn Circus via Gray's Inn Road, returning via Farringdon Road
543 Stamford Hill to Holborn Circus via Gray's Inn Road, returning via Farringdon Road
613 Reverse of 513
630 Tooting to Hammersmith
643 Reverse of 543
665 Poplar to Bloomsbury


--
Peter Beale