[Crossposted to utl; original thread in uk.r]

"Paul Harley" wrote
From Newsrail Express 390:

Price Changes from 17 May 2009

[useful details snipped]
Just for clarification, does the (e.g. Senior) railcard discount for
('inboundary') off-peak day travelcards continue? If so, how much will an
'all-zones' (1-6) railcard-discounted off-peak day travelcard cost? [Yes, I
know 1-6 isn't really all the zones, but you know what I mean...]

On Apr 22, 11:49*pm, "John Salmon" wrote:

[Crossposted to utl; original thread in uk.r]

"Paul Harley" wrote

From Newsrail Express 390:

Price Changes from 17 May 2009

[useful details snipped]
Just for clarification, does the (e.g. Senior) railcard discount for
('inboundary') off-peak day travelcards continue? *If so, how much will an
'all-zones' (1-6) railcard-discounted off-peak day travelcard cost? [Yes, I
know 1-6 isn't really all the zones, but you know what I mean...]


There's no mention of any changes to the existing arrangements for
Railcard-discounted inboundary Off-peak Day Travelcards, just a
mention that there won't be a discount available to inboundary
*Anytime* Day Travelcards as there will be for their outboundary
equivalents. So I surmise that they continue - there'd be a small riot
if this discount suddenly disappeared! (In particular amongst 16-25
Railcard holders whom I suspect make up the majority of such
purchases.)

(Which leads me to wondering about whether it'd be worthwhile for some
suitably located borderline folk to head out to an outboundary station
rather than an inboundary one so as to get the discount - certainly it
has been mentioned that GroupSave can make doing just that worthwhile,
as it doesn't apply to journeys wholly within the London zones. And
this all leads me on to pondering about purchasing tickets online for
journeys from outboundary stations collection to take advantage of
Railcard discounts/ GroupSave, and then collecting them at local
inboundary London stations... hmm, interesting!)

TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has
only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual
price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow
its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of
years, though it's now £5.00.

(Incidentally this £5 price is cheaper than the level of any Oyster
PAYG cap that includes Tube travel in zone 1 - e.g. the zone 1&2 cap
is £5.10. However this is only really of benefit to Network Railcard
holders during weekends and bank holidays, as holders of 16-25 and
Senior Railcards can get a discount entitlement loaded onto their
Oyster cards which means they can take advantage of discounted Oyster
daily caps, and the Network Railcard minimum fare of £10 - to be £13 -
means inboundary Day Travelcards don't cost enough to be discounted.)

On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote:
TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has
only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual
price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow
its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of
years, though it's now £5.00.

I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6.
Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9?

On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:

On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote:

TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has
only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual
price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow
its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of
years, though it's now £5.00.

I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6.
Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9?

How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones
1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards
bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for
free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket
office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm
not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground
took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares
revision of January '08, I'm not sure.

But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a
mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a
difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted"
wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of
Railcard used.

On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:

How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones
1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards
bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for
free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket
office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm
not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground
took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares
revision of January '08, I'm not sure.

Tickets from Amersham or Bushey can be purchased to all zones and are
issued on route RRR ZONES R789 allowing travel to 7-9. These are
railcard discountable.

On Apr 23, 6:05*pm, Tom wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:



How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones
1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards
bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for
free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket
office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm
not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground
took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares
revision of January '08, I'm not sure.

Tickets from Amersham or Bushey can be purchased to all zones and are
issued on route RRR ZONES R789 allowing travel to 7-9. These are
railcard discountable.

Apologies, you are of course correct. Bushey does however have a bit
of a split personality, as it is a London Overground station - and LO
sits somewhat awkwardly in both the National Rail and the LU ticketing
systems. Tickets issued in the manner you state are also available
from Carpenders Park (zone 7) and Watford High Street (zone 8) - and I
understand that Travelcards issued at Watford Jn (which is outside the
zones) also now have validity in zones 7-9 (with something like "Zones
789" appearing in the route field). Not sure if London Midland do this
at any of their other stations further north?

(Amersham meanwhile is an LU station.)

On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:

On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote:

TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has
only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual
price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow
its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of
years, though it's now £5.00.

I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6.
Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9?

How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones
1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards
bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for
free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket
office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm
not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground
took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares
revision of January '08, I'm not sure.

But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a
mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a
difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted"
wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of
Railcard used.

Ah, you're right about them formerly including A-D, while the NR ones
didn't - I think I had it the other way around in my head.

I'm pretty certain the Travelcard is no mistake though! It's not the
first one I've got for that price recently either, and this one is
from an entirely different tube ticket office. I used a 16-25
railcard.
The wording on the ticket is 'Reduced trvlcd std', with a big R.

Incidentally, the discounted z1-6 PAYG cap is £4.60, but that's not a
lot of use when you need to go on trains in south London...

On Apr 23, 7:29*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:

On Apr 23, 5:39*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On Apr 23, 1:38*pm, Martin Deutsch wrote:

On Apr 23, 12:57*am, Mizter T wrote:

TTBOMK the price of a Railcard-discounted Off-peak Day Travelcard has
only ever gone up in January - i.e. at the same time as the annual
price rise of Day Travelcards - though bizarrely it seems to follow
its own course somewhat, as it stayed £4.80 for at least a couple of
years, though it's now £5.00.

I bought one today from a tube station, and it was £4.90 for z1-6.
Are the ones from NR stations slightly more expensive to cover z1-9?

How very bizarre - those bought from NR stations only ever cover zones
1-6. It used to be the case that Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards
bought from LU stations had zones A-D (on the Met line) thrown in 'for
free' - these days if you want it with zones 7-9 from an LU ticket
office then it costs more (though is still Railcard discounted). I'm
not sure when this changed - perhaps in Nov '07 when London Overground
took over and zones 7-9 were introduced, perhaps it was in the fares
revision of January '08, I'm not sure.

But I am surprised by what you say. I can only think that it's a
mistake - what Railcard did you use? Not that I think it makes a
difference whatsoever - LU tickets merely have "Railcard discounted"
wording or similar printed on them as opposed to the specific type of
Railcard used.

Ah, you're right about them formerly including A-D, while the NR ones
didn't - I think I had it the other way around in my head.

I'm pretty certain the Travelcard is no mistake though! It's not the
first one I've got for that price recently either, and this one is
from an entirely different tube ticket office. I used a 16-25
railcard.
The wording on the ticket is 'Reduced trvlcd std', with a big R.

I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then.
Unless I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day
Travelcards I've bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I
can't think why LU would charge a different price! (Unless LU round
things down, and NR rounds them up - but that doesn't make any sense
as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is
bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries of ticketing...


Incidentally, the discounted z1-6 PAYG cap is £4.60, but that's not a
lot of use when you need to go on trains in south London...

True. PAYG is coming to NR though! (...eventually...)

"Mizter T" wrote
I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless
I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've
bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would
charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds them
up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the full
price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange mysteries
of ticketing...

The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the
rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. I have a feeling that the
£4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on
uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. You are right that (at least some)
National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU recently.

"John Salmon" wrote in message
...
"Mizter T" wrote
I shall have to try buying one for myself from an LU station then. Unless
I've gone mad the price of the Railcard-discounted Day Travelcards I've
bought from NR stations lately has been £5.00. I can't think why LU would
charge a different price! (Unless LU round things down, and NR rounds
them up - but that doesn't make any sense as two-thirds of £7.50 - the
full price of a z1-6 Day Travelcard - is bang on £5.00.) The strange
mysteries of ticketing...

The railcard discount is 34%, i.e. slightly more than one-third, so the
rounding up/down theory *may* be correct. I have a feeling that the
£4.90/£5.00 discrepancy between LU and "NR" has been mentioned before on
uk.r or utl, but I could be wrong. You are right that (at least some)
National Rail stations charge £5.00; I haven't bought one from LU
recently.

Has LU started offering railcard discounts recently? Every time I've tried
to buy a Z1-6 Day Travelcard with my disabled railcard I've been told that
LU don't do them so I normally to buy them from NR stations. If this is now
the case however do you get more for your money if you buy one from LU?
Regards
Andrew Wilson