"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In message ,
writes

I wouldn't categorise it as anything
close to the best. I'll take frequent services and cheap tickets over tidy
stations any day. The NYC subway is a dump but the trains are fast,
frequent,
air conditioned and it doesn't cost much.

Are they any more frequent than our Tube? I didn't get that impression (I
appreciate that they have express services superimposed.). I also found
it a much harder system to navigate.

I remember it took a while to get used to the conventions it has on
signposting within stations. There is (or maybe was - I was living there in
1991/2, and haven't returned since) a deliberate lack of signs within
stations, but a very consistent set of rules about where each type of sign
is and what it says. It takes a while to get used to the rules, but once you
know where to look it's a doddle.

D A Stocks

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Conceptually the RER is excellent. I personally find the stations awful
and many of the trains are dingy and stuck with late 70s / early 80s
decor which is dark and gloomy.

I rather like their exteriors, however.

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:03:17 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8020042.stm

Interesting.

Having bought a book at the weekend featuring Metro rolling stock from
across Europe I was astonished at the photos of the Rome Metro trains. I
didn't use the Metro when I was in Rome having been deterred by a truly
horrendous entrance by Roma Termini. The trains are filthy and
plastered with graffiti - the whole thing is utterly offputting. How the
Romans actually tolerate such neglect I just don't know - I can't think
of one railway system in the world whose stock is in such bad condition.

Hmm. I was in Rome a while ago, and didn't get that impression at all. It
all seemed fine to me. The stations tended to be a bit dank, like Euston
Square is, and the trains were more New York (specifically, the J train)
than London in terms of comfort, but it was fine to use.

I have though heard that Madrid and Barcelona have truly splendid
networks, although I've not been to either.

On my list to visit but again my new Metro book shows some wonderful and
interesting rolling stock for those networks. The other knack they have
is to keep extending their networks all the time - there seems to be no
end to their willingness and ability to improve their Metro and tram (in
Barcelona) systems.

Madrid's is lovely. The new line out to the airport is particularly fine -
the station at the airport itself is gorgeous. Barcelona's was fine when i
was there several years ago, but quite like Rome, ie nothing exciting. The
fact that the network also includes funiculars and cable-cars is rather
excellent, though!

tom

--
.... the gripping first chapter, which literally grips you because it's
printed on a large clamp.

Tom Anderson wrote:

Barcelona's was
fine when i was there several years ago, but quite like Rome, ie
nothing exciting. The fact that the network also includes funiculars
and cable-cars is rather excellent, though!

Maybe we should campaign for some in London, up Gants Hill, maybe.

"John Rowland" wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Barcelona's was
fine when i was there several years ago, but quite like Rome, ie
nothing exciting. The fact that the network also includes funiculars
and cable-cars is rather excellent, though!

Maybe we should campaign for some in London, up Gants Hill, maybe.


Or through Crystal Palace Park. If we can't have a tram...
--
Current nearest station: West Dulwich

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, John Rowland wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Barcelona's was fine when i was there several years ago, but quite like
Rome, ie nothing exciting. The fact that the network also includes
funiculars and cable-cars is rather excellent, though!

Maybe we should campaign for some in London, up Gants Hill, maybe.

There was a semi-serious proposal for one in Chatham or something, wasn't
there?

Barcelona's has its middle stop at the summit of a mighty tower:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=barc...03523762807984
http://bacn.me/37l

Perhaps the Post Office Tower could be pressed into service? The line
could run from Primrose Hill to the GPO, then across the river to the Eye.

tom

--
Swords not words!

LUL was pretty poor this morning due to overrunning engineering on the
Piccadilly near Barons Court - no trains between Hammersmith and Hyde
Park Corner, with trains from Heathrow being turned around at
Northfields, Acton Town and Hammersmith - I was dumped at Northfields,
took the next train which took about 20 minutes to get to Acton Town,
where we could finally change to the District - also going very slowly
due to all the Piccadilly people trying to get on and blocking the
doors. Two hours from LHR to Victoria, standing all the way of course.
On the other hand, I flew in from the US where I had all the familiar
problems of subway stations without ticket offices, only machines that
don't take cards (especially foreign ones), only give USD5 change, and
reject most of the dollar bills you feed in. Once you get in, the
systems generally run pretty well.
Tim

On Apr 28, 8:26*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, John Rowland wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Barcelona's was fine when i was there several years ago, but quite like
Rome, ie nothing exciting. The fact that the network also includes
funiculars and cable-cars is rather excellent, though!

Maybe we should campaign for some in London, up Gants Hill, maybe.

There was a semi-serious proposal for one in Chatham or something, wasn't
there?

Barcelona's has its middle stop at the summit of a mighty tower:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=barc...://bacn.me/37l

Perhaps the Post Office Tower could be pressed into service? The line
could run from Primrose Hill to the GPO, then across the river to the Eye..


Dunno about Chatham, but there was semi-serious talk of a cable car
linking Covent Garden with the South Bank - I've just goggled for it
and found this Indy article from 1995:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...y-1585424.html

It was mooted as a potential Millennium project. It would seem that
this idea lost out to the Hungerford footbridges, aka the Golden
Jubilee Bridges, which were a Millennium project (i.e. funded by the
Millennium Commission), and which provide a far superior route across
the Thames in comparison to the old footbridge on the downriver side
of the railway bridge.

I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I'm not sure these were always
destined to carry the "Golden Jubilee [Bridges]" moniker - however
construction was delayed in part because of concerns about foundations
hitting the Bakerloo line tunnels just under the river bed (were these
not also reinforced around this time?). Whether there was ever a
serious estimated completion date of late 1999 or 2000 I don't know,
but if so the whole thing certainly slipped substantially early on.

I would love for there to be a cable car between Covent Garden and the
South Bank, but being brutally honest I have to say the new Hungerford
bridges are rather more useful overall, and are also rather splendid
at that. They do quite a good job in opening up the South Bank to norf-
of-the-river central London, at least in comparison to their
uninviting and unexciting predecessor. And I rather suspect that the
Millennium Wheel has already taken up the slot for the theme-park ride
already, at least in this part of town.

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:33:41 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:
Not done Frankfurt and many years since I have been to Brussels and
Amsterdam. The key point is that those systems have very few staff
present on them which means that there is little pride in the system.
It's no wonder they look down at heel and untidy.

I was in Brussels last year a couple of times. The metro seemed quite
tidy to me though the information was woeful. We ended up going in the
wrong direction on one of the underground tram lines because trying to
decode the rats nest system map for the centre was a nightmare.

Romans actually tolerate such neglect I just don't know - I can't think
of one railway system in the world whose stock is in such bad condition.

They're italians. They couldn't sort out a **** in a toilet, never mind a
**** up in a brewery. Its amazing the system works at all.

B2003

In message , writes
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:33:41 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:
Not done Frankfurt and many years since I have been to Brussels and
Amsterdam. The key point is that those systems have very few staff
present on them which means that there is little pride in the system.
It's no wonder they look down at heel and untidy.

I was in Brussels last year a couple of times. The metro seemed quite
tidy to me though the information was woeful. We ended up going in the
wrong direction on one of the underground tram lines because trying to
decode the rats nest system map for the centre was a nightmare.

It always reminds me as though it was built in c1972 and hasn't been
touched since!

Actually, I've had much more use of the pre-Metro, the tram served
tunnels, which it sounds as though you experienced, rather than the true
Metro there.

I'm sure that without a reasonable knowledge of the City (which I'm
lucky enough to have), sorting out where to go would be
less-than-intuitive.

As an aside, I did briefly consider proposing to my wife in a Brussels
underground station, as she (and it) are called "Louise". In the end I
settled for Lake Louise in Alberta. She tells me she was glad about
the choice of venue.......

Romans actually tolerate such neglect I just don't know - I can't think
of one railway system in the world whose stock is in such bad condition.

They're italians. They couldn't sort out a **** in a toilet, never mind a
**** up in a brewery. Its amazing the system works at all.

The tram systems in Milan and Turin (the only places I've been to in
Italy for any meaningful time) seemed to work effectively although as
always with such networks working out the system map was tricky.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk