"

I agree the whole thing looks politically motivated, but in this case I
don't think that's really a bad thing. The eastern end of the Thames really
does need regenerating, and Canary Wharf could do with another line to the
centre of town as I believe the existing ones are already pushing capacity.


There is quite a large area of South-East London that seems to be
missing out on transport improvements - from Bromley in the south
therough Sidcup and Eltham (where I live) up to Bexleyheath in the
north. Some maps add insult to injury by placing the "key to symbols"
box over this area.

Grenwich Council's transport policy involves campaigning for
improvements in the northern, Thamesside part of the Borough while
ignoring the needs of the south. The political map of the Borough
might suggest why this is the case.

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving transport in the
Cinderella parts of SE London? Would it be a realistic long-term
project to lobby for a new tube line starting say at Sidcup and
running through Eltham, Kidbrooke and Charlton to link with the
Jubilee at North Greenwich or Canary Wharf and then continue through
Hackney to finish at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale? This would
greatly improve transport links to Docklands and really help shift
Lonson's centre of gravity to the East.

On 9 Oct 2003 02:20:37 -0700 in uk.transport.london, (Gary
Jenkins) tapped out on the keyboard:


There is quite a large area of South-East London that seems to be
missing out on transport improvements - from Bromley in the south
therough Sidcup and Eltham (where I live) up to Bexleyheath in the
north. Some maps add insult to injury by placing the "key to symbols"
box over this area.

Grenwich Council's transport policy involves campaigning for
improvements in the northern, Thamesside part of the Borough while
ignoring the needs of the south. The political map of the Borough
might suggest why this is the case.

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving transport in the
Cinderella parts of SE London? Would it be a realistic long-term
project to lobby for a new tube line starting say at Sidcup and
running through Eltham, Kidbrooke and Charlton to link with the
Jubilee at North Greenwich or Canary Wharf and then continue through
Hackney to finish at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale? This would
greatly improve transport links to Docklands and really help shift
Lonson's centre of gravity to the East.

There was an opportunity 15 years or so ago when it was proposed to route the
CTRL through SE London which would have led to improvements to commuter
services. But such was hysterical NIMBYism that the CTRL has benefited
Stratford instead.

--
John Youles Norwich England UK
(recently of Beckenham)
j dot y.o.u.l.e.s at n.t.l.w.o.r.l.d dot c.o.m

"Gary Jenkins" wrote in message
om...

Would it be a realistic long-term
project to lobby for a new tube line starting say
at Sidcup and running through Eltham, Kidbrooke
and Charlton to link with the Jubilee at North
Greenwich or Canary Wharf and then continue through
Hackney to finish at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale?

That depends on who you are, but I doubt it.

IMO the best chance for improved transport in Eltham lies in getting a
branch or diversion of Greenwich Waterfront Transit. The current GWT
alignment was cooked up a long time before anyone was talking about sending
Crossrail to the Southeast. I wonder if the business case for the route west
of Woolwich still stacks up? If not, perhaps GWT should run Thamesmead -
Woolwich - Eltham - Bromley ( - Beckenham?) instead.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On 9 Oct 2003 02:20:37 -0700, (Gary Jenkins) wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving transport in the
Cinderella parts of SE London? Would it be a realistic long-term
project to lobby for a new tube line starting say at Sidcup and
running through Eltham, Kidbrooke and Charlton to link with the
Jubilee at North Greenwich or Canary Wharf and then continue through
Hackney to finish at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale? This would
greatly improve transport links to Docklands and really help shift
Lonson's centre of gravity to the East.

Interesting that you think you need a Tube Line to solve your problems.
Given the distance to places like Sidcup I'm not sure this would be a
universally acceptable solution. Your route also forces everyone heading
to the Centre to change trains onto lines that are already overcrowded
at peak times.

I'm of the view that the lines in South East London need to be
resignalled and then have the service redesigned into a form of S Bahn
type service. You would need much better interchange and higher
frequency services and possibly a compromise on service patterns - there
is the current conflict between getting people to the West End (CX /
Vic) and to the City (L Bdg / C St) from the same places.

With some ingenuity and planning it would be possible to run some
services through the East London Line and possibly via Thameslink -
admittedly there would be compromises. Beyond that you are probably
talking about RER style tunnels between Victoria or Charing Cross and
Euston - not sure anyone is planning how Tottenham Court Rd would cope
with 2 Tube Lines and 3 Crossrail type lines running through it though!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

(Gary Jenkins) wrote in message . com...

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving transport in the
Cinderella parts of SE London? Would it be a realistic long-term
project to lobby for a new tube line starting say at Sidcup and
running through Eltham, Kidbrooke and Charlton to link with the
Jubilee at North Greenwich or Canary Wharf and then continue through
Hackney to finish at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale? This would
greatly improve transport links to Docklands and really help shift
London's centre of gravity to the East.

Some random thoughts...

Making sure everyone from Eltham/Kidbrooke *didn't* to crawl up to
North Greenwich would be a start, although this seems to be the way
Greenwich Council wants it. The bus network up to North Greenwich
cannot cope with the number of people who use it already, without
bringing in more buses from more areas.

If the Bakerloo Line wasn't so packed, I'd suggest extending the
Bakerloo Line out from the Elephant towards Lewisham and Eltham and
beyond. Or how about simply improving the current rail services? I'm
amazed no-one has put more capacity in at London Bridge, and that
Borough Market still stands.

Thamesmead needs a heavy rail connection to central London of its own,
not a weedy bus/tram link to Woolwich or Greenwich. I'd suggest
running a branch off the C2C line from Fenchurch Street to Barking/
Upminster to create a fast link to the City. Is there the room for
such a thing?

Darryl

(Darryl Chamberlain) wrote in message . com...
(Gary Jenkins) wrote in message . com...

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving transport in the
Cinderella parts of SE London?
Some random thoughts...

Making sure everyone from Eltham/Kidbrooke *didn't* to crawl up to
North Greenwich would be a start, although this seems to be the way
Greenwich Council wants it. The bus network up to North Greenwich
cannot cope with the number of people who use it already, without
bringing in more buses from more areas.


Greenwich Council seems to be content with the current situation
whereby people have to crawl from Eltham to North Greenwich (only
direct route is the 161 bus which takes about 35 minutes). A fast
route using the A 102(M) would reduce this significantly. I don't
think it's unreasonable for Eltham commuters to expect this so that
the Jubilee Line to North Greenwich is a feasible alternative if the
overground services are buggered up or if their journey starts in the
Baker St area, or just to get to the Greenwich Peninsula when that
area is developed. There's plenty of space around North Greenwich,
I'm sure that with a little imagination space could be found for more
buses.


. Or how about simply improving the current rail services?

You're right. However the latest development seems to be the
Overground Network

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/press-746.shtml

It would be interesting to know why the Greenwich/Charlton line has
been chosen as a "key route" ahead of the Bexleyheath and Sidcup
lines, especially when Greenwich/Charlton already get more benefit
from the DLR and Jubilee Line than do Eltham/New Eltham. If I
understand the Overground Network correctly, there are going to be
extra evening trains on the London Bridge-Greenwich-Woolwich line
which will mean that the people who probably need it less are getting
the improvements.

Are there any figures anywhere on relative overcrowding levels between
the various London Bridge-Dartford lines or on the number of people
who use each station?