Found this on a transport blog:

'Reports are that during 2011 the Sevenoaks service will return to
Southeastern with First Capital Connect running a new Tonbridge via
Bromley South, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough service. First
Capital Connect will also run a service from London Bridge to Dartford
calling at St Johns and then split with all station services via both
Lewisham/Welling and Sidcup/Crayford lines.'

'Maps have already been given out to developers in the City although
it carries the disclaimer “This map shows a indicative route network.
The 2011 Thameslink train service is subject to further evaluation and
consultation by the DfT, including an assessment of the levels of
train service at and through London Bridge during the construction
phase of the station”.'

URL: http://tinyurl.com/cwyw5l (check out the big paragraph in the
middle)

wrote:
Found this on a transport blog:

'Reports are that during 2011 the Sevenoaks service will return to
Southeastern with First Capital Connect running a new Tonbridge via
Bromley South, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough service. First
Capital Connect will also run a service from London Bridge to Dartford
calling at St Johns and then split with all station services via both
Lewisham/Welling and Sidcup/Crayford lines.'

The recently published Kent RUS consultation draft is possibly a more
authoritative update. Includes amongst many other references to Thameslink:

"The current expectation is that all fast trains to Cannon Street from the
Tonbridge area will be incorporated into the Thameslink network, calling at
London Bridge but running onwards towards Blackfriars and beyond...

"Based on the train service specification assumed by the South London RUS,
Thameslink services in the Kent RUS area would run to and from Tunbridge
Wells, Paddock Wood and Maidstone East. These are all likely to replace
services that currently operate to Cannon Street or Blackfriars.

As an aside, there is some interesting stuff in the RUS proposals for
extensions to HS1 services, with a significant number of additional 395s
being required...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...us%20draft.pdf

Paul

On May 5, 11:51*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote:
Found this on a transport blog:

'Reports are that during 2011 the Sevenoaks service will return to
Southeastern with First Capital Connect running a new Tonbridge via
Bromley South, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough service. First
Capital Connect will also run a service from London Bridge to Dartford
calling at St Johns and then split with all station services via both
Lewisham/Welling and Sidcup/Crayford lines.'

The recently published Kent RUS consultation draft is possibly a more
authoritative update. Includes amongst many other references to Thameslink:

"The current expectation is that all fast trains to Cannon Street from the
Tonbridge area will be incorporated into the Thameslink network, calling at
London Bridge but running onwards towards Blackfriars and beyond...

"Based on the train service specification assumed by the South London RUS,
Thameslink services in the Kent RUS area would run to and from Tunbridge
Wells, Paddock Wood and Maidstone East. These are all likely to replace
services that currently operate to Cannon Street or Blackfriars.

As an aside, there is some interesting stuff in the RUS proposals for
extensions to HS1 services, with a significant number of additional 395s
being required...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...ocuments/route...

Paul

This would mean that the introduction of through services would result
in dramatically more people having to change at London Bridge, which
isn't very healthy and safe at the best of times.

Fixed peak service patterns, with everything from certain routes going
to the same terminus, have been suggested and rejected before.

I don't think the City types who currently tuck themselves into a seat
at Cannon Street will be keen on changing to an already full train at
London Bridge, so there will probably be some lobbying to prevent this
happening.

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On May 5, 11:51 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote:
Found this on a transport blog:

'Reports are that during 2011 the Sevenoaks service will return to
Southeastern with First Capital Connect running a new Tonbridge via
Bromley South, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough service. First
Capital Connect will also run a service from London Bridge to Dartford
calling at St Johns and then split with all station services via both
Lewisham/Welling and Sidcup/Crayford lines.'

The recently published Kent RUS consultation draft is possibly a more
authoritative update. Includes amongst many other references to
Thameslink:

"The current expectation is that all fast trains to Cannon Street from the
Tonbridge area will be incorporated into the Thameslink network, calling
at
London Bridge but running onwards towards Blackfriars and beyond...

"Based on the train service specification assumed by the South London RUS,
Thameslink services in the Kent RUS area would run to and from Tunbridge
Wells, Paddock Wood and Maidstone East. These are all likely to replace
services that currently operate to Cannon Street or Blackfriars.

As an aside, there is some interesting stuff in the RUS proposals for
extensions to HS1 services, with a significant number of additional 395s
being required...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...ocuments/route...

Paul

This would mean that the introduction of through services would result
in dramatically more people having to change at London Bridge, which
isn't very healthy and safe at the best of times.

Fixed peak service patterns, with everything from certain routes going
to the same terminus, have been suggested and rejected before.

I don't think the City types who currently tuck themselves into a seat
at Cannon Street will be keen on changing to an already full train at
London Bridge, so there will probably be some lobbying to prevent this
happening.

RESPONSE to THREAD

Don't know why my indent and isn't happening, but this is my 2p on the
issue of "forcing" South of London services through Thameslink ...

With the 12-car exercise leading to closure of the City Branch, what do
folks here think of the idea of restoring the east chord at Farringdon, and
installing 3rd rail on the former DOWN or both tracks through to Moorgate
Platforms 5 & 6:

a) can it be done after the works at Smithfield and Farringdon?
b) would it be a low cost substitute for the terminating platforms at
Blackfriars during rebuilding?
c) given that it must be a flat junction at Snow Hill, would this be a more
efficient way of terminating DC stock at City Thameslink, and of handling
northbound dual voltage stock which fails to engage AC?
d) would Moorgate be an acceptable interim terminal (for City workers) and
interchange (to Northern) while access at LB and Cannon St is affected by
works?
e) would we need to activate Platform 4 at Barbican to provide the
interchange to the Circle/H&C/Met Inner Rail - or would "Kentish Man" (the
southern cousin of "Amersham Man") prefer to stay on board one extra stop
and have an "at level" interchange from Platform 6 to Platform 2?

Regards

David Down Under

NB: I do have other thoughts about the old UP Midland City Widenend Line in
relation to terminating Metropolitan Line trains in the Central Area while
seeking to reduce conflicts and delays at minories Junction - will post
those thoughts elsewhere.

"DW downunder" noname wrote

With the 12-car exercise leading to closure of the City Branch, what do
folks here think of the idea of restoring the east chord at Farringdon,
and installing 3rd rail on the former DOWN or both tracks through to
Moorgate Platforms 5 & 6:

a) can it be done after the works at Smithfield and Farringdon?
b) would it be a low cost substitute for the terminating platforms at
Blackfriars during rebuilding?
c) given that it must be a flat junction at Snow Hill, would this be a
more efficient way of terminating DC stock at City Thameslink, and of
handling northbound dual voltage stock which fails to engage AC?
d) would Moorgate be an acceptable interim terminal (for City workers) and
interchange (to Northern) while access at LB and Cannon St is affected by
works?
e) would we need to activate Platform 4 at Barbican to provide the
interchange to the Circle/H&C/Met Inner Rail - or would "Kentish Man" (the
southern cousin of "Amersham Man") prefer to stay on board one extra stop
and have an "at level" interchange from Platform 6 to Platform 2?

I don't know if it's even remotely possible in view of buildings which have
appeared since the spur was closed (90 years ago?). Certainly not possible
in time for help during the Thameslink Project, and useless in the long
term. The whole point of Thameslink is 24 tph (in the peak) between St
Pancras and Blackfriars, and diverting some trains to Moorgate would reduce
this.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...



I don't know if it's even remotely possible in view of buildings which
have appeared since the spur was closed (90 years ago?). Certainly not
possible in time for help during the Thameslink Project, and useless in
the long term.
Like you, I suspect the route is now blocked. This article gives some
history:

www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/ChathamConMoorgate.pdf

I would dispute the 'useless in the long term' bit - at one time Brighton to
Moorgate was my daily commute, and a service that avoided the change at
Farringdon would have been very useful!

D A Stocks

Thanks to Peter Masson who replied.

Would you believe that having posted this at 3pm, Peter replied at 3.22pm
(my local time) and I'm now looking at 7.28pm my local time and I get error
msg: Message is no longer available on the server
Windows Mail is unable to retrieve the requested message because the server
no longer has the message available.

Has anybody else experienced this crap, or could it be my local server down
under?

So, sorry Peter, I don't know what you said. I'll have to try and figure
Google groups for the archive - which I saw somewhere had moved.

Regards

David

"DW downunder" noname wrote in message
...

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On May 5, 11:51 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote:
Found this on a transport blog:

'Reports are that during 2011 the Sevenoaks service will return to
Southeastern with First Capital Connect running a new Tonbridge via
Bromley South, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Hildenborough service. First
Capital Connect will also run a service from London Bridge to Dartford
calling at St Johns and then split with all station services via both
Lewisham/Welling and Sidcup/Crayford lines.'

The recently published Kent RUS consultation draft is possibly a more
authoritative update. Includes amongst many other references to
Thameslink:

"The current expectation is that all fast trains to Cannon Street from
the
Tonbridge area will be incorporated into the Thameslink network, calling
at
London Bridge but running onwards towards Blackfriars and beyond...

"Based on the train service specification assumed by the South London
RUS,
Thameslink services in the Kent RUS area would run to and from Tunbridge
Wells, Paddock Wood and Maidstone East. These are all likely to replace
services that currently operate to Cannon Street or Blackfriars.

As an aside, there is some interesting stuff in the RUS proposals for
extensions to HS1 services, with a significant number of additional 395s
being required...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...ocuments/route...

Paul

This would mean that the introduction of through services would result
in dramatically more people having to change at London Bridge, which
isn't very healthy and safe at the best of times.

Fixed peak service patterns, with everything from certain routes going
to the same terminus, have been suggested and rejected before.

I don't think the City types who currently tuck themselves into a seat
at Cannon Street will be keen on changing to an already full train at
London Bridge, so there will probably be some lobbying to prevent this
happening.

RESPONSE to THREAD

Don't know why my indent and isn't happening, but this is my 2p on the
issue of "forcing" South of London services through Thameslink ...

With the 12-car exercise leading to closure of the City Branch, what do
folks here think of the idea of restoring the east chord at Farringdon,
and installing 3rd rail on the former DOWN or both tracks through to
Moorgate Platforms 5 & 6:

a) can it be done after the works at Smithfield and Farringdon?
b) would it be a low cost substitute for the terminating platforms at
Blackfriars during rebuilding?
c) given that it must be a flat junction at Snow Hill, would this be a
more efficient way of terminating DC stock at City Thameslink, and of
handling northbound dual voltage stock which fails to engage AC?
d) would Moorgate be an acceptable interim terminal (for City workers) and
interchange (to Northern) while access at LB and Cannon St is affected by
works?
e) would we need to activate Platform 4 at Barbican to provide the
interchange to the Circle/H&C/Met Inner Rail - or would "Kentish Man" (the
southern cousin of "Amersham Man") prefer to stay on board one extra stop
and have an "at level" interchange from Platform 6 to Platform 2?

Regards

David Down Under

NB: I do have other thoughts about the old UP Midland City Widenend Line
in relation to terminating Metropolitan Line trains in the Central Area
while seeking to reduce conflicts and delays at minories Junction - will
post those thoughts elsewhere.

"MIG" wrote in message
...

This would mean that the introduction of through services would result
in dramatically more people having to change at London Bridge, which
isn't very healthy and safe at the best of times.

Fixed peak service patterns, with everything from certain routes going
to the same terminus, have been suggested and rejected before.

I don't think the City types who currently tuck themselves into a seat
at Cannon Street will be keen on changing to an already full train at
London Bridge, so there will probably be some lobbying to prevent this
happening.

A fair number of these City types would just go to City Thameslink or
Blackfriars instead - i.e. they wouldn't *have* to change at London Bridge,
and there is even a chance they would be commuting to a station closer to
their office than Cannon St.

D A Stocks

Thanks, a great article. Wish I'd read it while I was still working at
Holborn Circus. Would've had a better idea of the things I saw as I was
strolling around or rushing to get a BedPan out of Farringdon. Probably
would've spend hours nosing around instead of in the office Returned to
Oz just before Thameslink got the nod. -

Still leaves unclear the question of whether the access is still feasible,
and indeed I have a suspicion there were two curves there, one possibly
being a goods avoiding line to the Mid Rly goods yard, and the other
connecting to the Moorgate tracks.

David down under

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...



I don't know if it's even remotely possible in view of buildings which
have appeared since the spur was closed (90 years ago?). Certainly not
possible in time for help during the Thameslink Project, and useless in
the long term.
Like you, I suspect the route is now blocked. This article gives some
history:

www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/ChathamConMoorgate.pdf

I would dispute the 'useless in the long term' bit - at one time Brighton
to Moorgate was my daily commute, and a service that avoided the change at
Farringdon would have been very useful!

D A Stocks

On Thu, 7 May 2009 21:04:31 +0800, "DW downunder" noname wrote:

Thanks, a great article. Wish I'd read it while I was still working at
Holborn Circus. Would've had a better idea of the things I saw as I was
strolling around or rushing to get a BedPan out of Farringdon. Probably
would've spend hours nosing around instead of in the office Returned to
Oz just before Thameslink got the nod. -

Still leaves unclear the question of whether the access is still feasible,

The start of the article describes the Snow Hill to Smithfield tunnel
being demolished to make way for a new market building; this was
indeed built and is definitely blocking the route.

and indeed I have a suspicion there were two curves there, one possibly
being a goods avoiding line to the Mid Rly goods yard, and the other
connecting to the Moorgate tracks.

Sorry, there was only one curve from Snow Hill to Smithfield. There
were connections from the widened lines into ex Great Western
Smithfield Goods Depot at the Smithfield junction and at
Aldersgate/Barbican - both in tunnel as the depot was underground (it
is now a car park).
--
Peter Lawrence