"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on
improvement
but
it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when
giving
the
yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.


Not crap the truth



Your erros have already been pointed out by others. I suggest you do not
let your pointless hatred for a long departed Prime Minister blind you
to the truth.

--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

I suggest you look to Grant for bigotry

I like the attitude of the blues in this room, they have short memories
"lets sack the royal mail staff"

Okay then where would you be today without people standing up for what they
believe. In years gone by we were at the beg and call of our employers, had
no safety legislation, working hours restrictions etc to protect us, they
could hire, abuse and fire any one they wanted when they wanted. People died
needlessly.

Out of this sprang the unions who fought for rights that the blues now take
for granted. Without struggle pain and suffereing on the shoulders of others
they would not have their nice cushly lifestyles now. However they seem to
believe that this would have happened anyway, from what catalyst???

"PeterE" wrote in message
...
iantheengineer wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on
improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she
created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.

Not crap the truth

Sorry, one of the biggest loads of totally untrue rubbish posted here for
months.

Margaret Thatcher was by far the most pro-road Prime Minister of recent
years and her administration approved a large number of new road projects
(completing the M40 between Oxford and Birmingham probably being the
single
biggest). Unfortunately many of those were cancelled by the Major
government
and some of those that remained by John Prescott.

Labour has recently begun to grudgingly acknowledge that a decent
transport
system is essential for a successful economy, and has started reinstating
a
few of these schemes.

But without the decisions taken under the Thatcher adminstrations,
Britain's
roads would be far worse than they are now (which doesn't bear thinking
about, really).

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Your view is certainly not shared by me, yes she may have buiilt roads, but
look at what happens road building leads to more traffic, this has been
researched.

Which political party was John Major from????


Thanks for corraborating, why did Major cancel the schemes????



Oh yes no money


Why was there no money

Oh yes Thatcher

And oh yes the schemes remain with Prescott

Ah they remain, ie on a list, ie to be looked into


In the meantime most local highway sections have never been so busy, the
only problem is getting trained staff( most local HAs have a backlog of
work). A problem once more proliferated in the 80s with the scrapping of
apprenticeships and the introduction of the YTS.


Im bored now arguing with the rosy tinted spectacle weares of the 70s and
80s

"iantheengineer" wrote the following
in:


"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Chris Jones" wrote the following
in:

If the North/South Circulars had been built properly as 3-4
lane motorways, people living in London wouldn't need to use
the M25 to get from one part to another, and it would do what
it was designed for - cater for long-distance traffic.

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits
where it gets very congested or narrows down to single
carriageway, it's generally alright.

Investment in public transport is whats required, something else
MT ran into the ground

Well, yes, but I don't see what that has to do with my post. Could you
explain?

--
message by Robin May

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:02:50 -0000, "JNugent"
wrote:

wrote:


Hasn't the A74 been in the process of being upgraded to motorway for the
last seven or eight years?


Yes it has I'll grant you that. It will be allright if it gets
finished if they get rid of the 2 lane bits.

And I'm sure there was some extension of the M8 or M9 being built in the
mid-1990s (the last time I was in the Edinburgfh area).


Just tied up the M8, M9, City Bypass, Gyle shopping centre junction.
There is *still* not a proper approach to the Forth bridge from the
M8/M9 just a single carriageway back alley

And what about the Edinburgh Ring?


Should have been a motorway, with links into Edinburgh

And the M77?


A dead end bit of a spur off to nowhere.

And the M90?


Primitive, Built IIRC before 1970, I used it in 1974, (not the
bridge/junction over the river Earn) without hard shoulders! Why the
Scots ever stood for that I can't imagiine. Reminds me of Freddy
Trueman's story about the "Poverty Pit".

These were all built in the 70s, 80, and 90s.

Not enough, true - but "all built by 1970 all but 15 miles" cannot be
accurate.


From: http://www.ukmotorwayarchive.org/ (talking about Scotland)

By the end of 1967, 151.5 miles of motorway and dual carriageway were
open, 42.5 miles were under construction, and 15 miles had to be
started to achieve the target 209 miles total.

DG

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:13:50 -0000, "PeterE"
wrote:

derek wrote:

All what roadbuilding? The motorways in Scotland were complete (all
but 15 miles) before 1970. That's to all intents and puposes 35 years
ago. As I said it's like driving round the old East Germany. And now
like any old system maintenance is a big source of downtime. Let's
face it every other system that's tried to run using 35 year old
infrastructure has bitten the dust (The Mills, The Mines, The
Steelworks, USW, USW.)


The extension of the M74/A74(M) south to Gretna largely took place in the
1990s. Likewise the building of the M77. And the upgrading of the A90
between Perth and Aberdeen.

Did that run this week. it should have been a motorway, a proper one
from square one.


You were saying?

http://www.ukmotorwayarchive.org/

By the end of 1967, 151.5 miles of motorway and dual carriageway were
open, 42.5 miles were under construction, and 15 miles had to be
started to achieve the target 209 miles total.

DG

Your view is certainly not shared by me, yes she may have buiilt roads,
but look at what happens road building leads to more traffic, this
has been researched.

Perhaps building roads does lead to more traffic - for example, before the
M25 was built, I would be far less likely to travel from Birmingham to Kent,
simply because of the hassle of getting through London.

Surely new roads giving people new possibilities to travel, meet friends and
relatives, and go for days out should be celebrated? After all, that means
our standard of living has increased, surely.

Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked as we
are.

"Chris Jones" typed


Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked as we
are.


France has about four times the land area, for the same population as th UK.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"iantheengineer" writes:

How much delay depends upon the designer and the type of control,
whether it is fixed or adaptive. All modern schemes are adaptive,
MOVA, micro proceesor optimized vehicle actuation is now the
standard method of control for isolated junctions

When the traffic lights at Chiswick Roundabout were upgraded last
year, tailbacks on the Eastbound A4 quadrupled. The "optimized"
controller was routinely letting the southbound North Circular traffic
onto the roundabout at the same time as the eastbound A4, with the
result that only 3 or 4 cars from each lane could get off the A4 on
each cycle. I am not convinced that MOVA lights are an improvement on
the fixed cycle synchronized lights that started becoming popular 20
years ago.

"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
"Chris Jones" typed


Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but
creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very
little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway
that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways
would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked
as we
are.

France has about four times the land area, for the same population as th
UK.

More like twice the land area*, but I agree that's one reason. There are
fewer cars per mile of road. Also since distances are longer, people may
be more reluctant to travel by car, especially since
- the French autoroutes (motorways) are toll roads except near large
cities, e.g. Calais to Paris costs about £12,
- long-distance radial routes from Paris have excellent fast TGV train
services.

* from http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/1996/in1.pdf:
Land area: France 547,030 sq km, UK 244,820, ratio 2.23
% of surface passenger-km by road (incl. bus): France 92.7%, UK 95.4%
% of surface freight ton-km by road: France 63.1%, UK 88.5%

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)