On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:50:13 +0000, iantheengineer wrote:
I dont think everyone does know the theory of public transport judging by
this NG comments so apologies for teaching you to suck eggs

Most people know the theory, however argue its not practical in many cases

Not forgetting the disadvantages at all, we all know that a bus does not
have the same attributes as car travel, but it can also be said to some
degree that cars do not have some of the qualities of public trasport.
For example in a town centre, parking can be a problem, not if you use
the bus.

Indeed, and IMO only dumbasses and people working weird shifts would
consider using private transport in London, especially in zone 1. My car
is currently on a long term holiday in Greece, and will stay there for as
long as I'm working in the hellhole that is London.

However in many cases people dont live in dense enough Areas to allow
public transport. I'm more of a fan of parkway stations on motorway
networks, offering direct speedy (70mph+) access to the center of towns,
with easy interchange to a local light-rail system taking you Direct to
your destination.

There are many issues revoloving around the reasons for why people
choose not to use public transport. The key is to identify these and
redress them to attract people back to them. No mean feat

convenience, comfort, privacy

Getting a seat in the morning, a table and power point for laptop on long
distance trains, intergration so I'm not waiting for connections,
cleanliness of trains, comfort of the ride, reliability

I wont use buses because they are stop-start all the time for busstops,
the drivers can't drive to save their life, and of course the smelly scum
that sit on you. Oh, and the peak theoretical speed is 30mph, average
is about 5-10mph.

"iantheengineer" wrote in message
...

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
Well, I hadn't mentioned throughput, but what would
you expect the maximum PT throughput per lane to be?

Per lane the maximum throughput of a lane for buses is 900 vehicles per
hour. This is purely a lane capacity in pcu (passenger car units) that
relates a bus to equal 2 passnger car units. An average lane has a capacity
of 1800 pcu, although this depends upon width gradient and alignment.

But if they have to stop to pick up customers,
what is the achieved passenger throughput?

wrote:

a bus stop is
interchange between walking and the bus ride, but many forms of
interchange are being developed, such as cycle carrying facilities on
buses and cycle lockers at train stations to enable the change from
say the bus to the cycle to complete the last part of the journey

Is that for rainy days?

"iantheengineer" wrote in message
...
snip

We could go on forever but suffice to say not all things work under the
same
rules, yes perhaps rock was a poor example due to the issue of it being
lava
when in a super heated stat, but to go by your theories we would only need
one mathematical formula to solve all of the worlds issues and this isnt
the
case, ask any mathematician.

Nicolis & Prigogine?
Waldrop?
Stewart?

ok, not quite the /one formula/;
yet...

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
iantheengineer wrote:

I actually work for a consultancy and not a local authority,

Name them so I can cross them off the list of places we do business
with.

Sounds like a good move; my understanding is that anyone still using pcu is
a tad out-dated.

On 08 Nov 2003 23:17:06 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:

In article , derek wrote:

Buses may be OK if you work in the centre of a city and live in a
suburb of that same city near to an arterial road to the city centre
and are lucky (the bus stop being near to your house). If you live in
one suburb and work in another you can forget about PT.

Really? I live in one suburb and work in another. (I will admit both are
in Greater London, but I don't think this changes the base assumptions
of these arguments.)

Oh, but it does. Very few cities in the world have a PT network on the
scale of London, combined with a horrific traffic problem for cars. If
If I live in one suburb and work in the next one along I have to wait
for a bus into town, walk to the next bus stop and wait for a bus out
of town to get to work. Three times the distance and twice the
waiting. Maybe 1 hour 20 minutes. In a car it's just 10-15 mins.

PT works just fine for my commute.
It's a little slower than driving would be, but not bad at all. I can
either use two bus routes or a train and a bus route.

You're lucky!


Niklas


DG

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
iantheengineer wrote:

What are you then Steve,

Well known.

or shall we go all defensive again

SInce I haven't been "defensive" how can I be "defensive again"?

BTW, only loonies post four followups to the same post, and only
****wits quote the entire post that they are replying to, including the
sig, to add a one line comment.

--
Having problems understanding usenet? Or do you simply need help but
are getting unhelpful answers? Subscribe to: uk.net.beginners for
friendly advice in a flame-free environment.

Not defensive!!

You have a very strange view of the world, please note I have not had to
resort to expletives to make a point unlike you, not defensive, with
replsies like whats the F** has it to do with you? you could have merely not
answered. And anyway your the one with all of the extraneous crap on the end
of every message. God you really do need a good kicking

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" wrote in message
...

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
...
Well, I hadn't mentioned throughput, but what would
you expect the maximum PT throughput per lane to be?

Per lane the maximum throughput of a lane for buses is 900 vehicles per
hour. This is purely a lane capacity in pcu (passenger car units) that
relates a bus to equal 2 passnger car units. An average lane has a
capacity
of 1800 pcu, although this depends upon width gradient and alignment.

But if they have to stop to pick up customers,
what is the achieved passenger throughput?



You cant really say this globally as it depends upon the density of stops,
the number of people alighting etc.

Its got to be higher than the car figure at any rate as the car lane
capacity is 1800 pcu so thats 1800 cars per hour at say 2 people per car
(that is very generous!) giving 3600 persons per hour. Say a bus achieved
1/3 capacity of 72 sealts ie 24, and they have a lane capacity of 900 buses
per hour you are talking 21600 passenger throughput, taking out say 15
minutes of the hour to be ultra generous to the car argument you are looking
at 16200 which is far in excess of the 3600 car argument, and I have been
generous to the car argument and have taken a pessimistic view of the buses.

"Robin May" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"iantheengineer" wrote the following
in:

I cant see the cons getting in this time, people still remeber the
Thatcher days and it is this that is keeping labour in power.

Me neither. Michael Howard? Ha! They'd have better luck if they brought
Maggie herself back.

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Then and than are different words!

Perhaps so she seems to have plenty of supporters in this NG! and I am
certainly not one of them!!

wrote:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote:

"iantheengineer" wrote:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote:

but what would
you expect the maximum PT throughput per lane to be?

Per lane the maximum throughput of a lane for buses is 900 vehicles
per hour. This is purely a lane capacity in pcu (passenger car
units) that relates a bus to equal 2 passnger car units. An average
lane has a capacity of 1800 pcu, although this depends upon width
gradient and alignment.

But if they have to stop to pick up customers,
what is the achieved passenger throughput?

You cant really say this globally as it depends upon the density of
stops, the number of people alighting etc.

Fair enough.

Its got to be higher than the car figure at any rate as the car lane
capacity is 1800 pcu so thats 1800 cars per hour at say 2 people per
car (that is very generous!) giving 3600 persons per hour. Say a bus
achieved 1/3 capacity of 72 sealts ie 24, and they have a lane
capacity of 900 buses per hour you are talking 21600 passenger
throughput, taking out say 15 minutes of the hour to be ultra
generous to the car argument you are looking at 16200 which is far in
excess of the 3600 car argument, and I have been generous to the car
argument and have taken a pessimistic view of the buses.

That isn't right. That a bus lane could handle 900 buses an hour may be
theoretically possible, but there is no highway in the UK (probably in the
world) which carries 900 buses or bus movements an hour - probably nowhere
near that many in a *day* (where I live, which is on a bus rouite, it
doesn't approach that figure in a week). So you are being very optimistic in
the case of buses, and not pessimistic at all.