David Cantrell wrote:

As I understand it, No2EU are abstentionists so if elected they won't
take
their seats in the European Parliament (a bit like the Sinn Fein attitude
to
the Westminster Parliament).

The difference is that Sinn Fein aren't allowed to take their seats at
Westminster, whereas No2EU would be allowed to.

No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe taking
their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to govern Northern
Ireland. (They used to boycott both the Dail and Stormont as well.) If Sinn
Fein wanted to take their seats nothing could stop them. They do make use of
Commons offices, claim expenses and have sometimes been around Parliament at
a higher rate than various non-abstentionist MPs.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

As I understand it, No2EU are abstentionists so if elected they won't
take their seats in the European Parliament (a bit like the Sinn Fein
attitude to the Westminster Parliament).

The difference is that Sinn Fein aren't allowed to take their seats at
Westminster, whereas No2EU would be allowed to.

No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe
taking their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to
govern Northern Ireland.

Strange how UKIP don't already do that with the EU parliament, eh?

Adrian wrote:

No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe
taking their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to
govern Northern Ireland.

Strange how UKIP don't already do that with the EU parliament, eh?

They don't want to cut themselves off from salaries, expenses or the chance
to feel important.

In article , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes

No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe taking
their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to govern Northern
Ireland. (They used to boycott both the Dail and Stormont as well.) If Sinn
Fein wanted to take their seats nothing could stop them.

Isn't it something about refusing to take an oath of allegiance?

--
Bill Borland

Bill Borland wrote:

No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe taking
their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to govern
Northern
Ireland. (They used to boycott both the Dail and Stormont as well.) If
Sinn
Fein wanted to take their seats nothing could stop them.

Isn't it something about refusing to take an oath of allegiance?

They focus on that but that's only because it's easier to get public
sympathy for attacking Parliamentary protocol (and there is a long history
of opposition to particular oathes in Ireland) than pretending that by not
taking their seats they are undermining the basis of UK rule.

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:16:54PM +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
The difference is that Sinn Fein aren't allowed to take their seats at
Westminster, whereas No2EU would be allowed to.
No Sinn Fein are allowed. They refuse to do so because they believe taking
their seats would be recognising the legitimacy of the UK to govern Northern
Ireland.

No, they're not allowed to. That's because to take your seat at
Westminster you need to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen. If
they were to do so they would obviously be lieing.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

"There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza."
"WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THERE IS A HOLE IN YOUR BUCKET?"

David Cantrell wrote:

No, they're not allowed to. That's because to take your seat at
Westminster you need to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen. If
they were to do so they would obviously be lieing.

Wrong. Avowed republicans can and do take the oath - the late Tony Banks was
notorious for doing so with his fingers crossed and in the Scottish
Parliament the Scottish Socialists did so with protests as well. Mark
Durkan, the SDLP leader, is another avowed anti-monarchist and he takes the
oath. That none of them have ever been charged shows how it is not a
barrier.

Irish republicanism is not just about replacing the monarch with an elected
head of state but about creating a separate independent Irish state. Irish
independence originally began because the Sinn Fein MPs elected in 1918
boycotted Westminster and set up their own Dail. The modern day Provisional
Sinn Fein maintains this tradition.

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 06:12:45PM +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
No, they're not allowed to. That's because to take your seat at
Westminster you need to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen. If
they were to do so they would obviously be lieing.
Wrong. Avowed republicans can and do take the oath

Not honestly they can't.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Deck of Cards: $1.29.
"101 Solitaire Variations" book: $6.59.
Cheap replacement for the one thing Windows is good at: priceless
-- Shane Lazarus

On Tue, 26 May 2009, David Cantrell wrote:

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 06:12:45PM +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
David Cantrell wrote:
No, they're not allowed to. That's because to take your seat at
Westminster you need to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen. If
they were to do so they would obviously be lieing.
Wrong. Avowed republicans can and do take the oath

Not honestly they can't.

So?

Tony Banks has been mentioned as someone who took the oath with his
fingers crossed, and happily served as an MP afterwards. He was happy to
do it, and the Commons authorities were happy for him to do it. If Sinn
Fein were actually interested in being MPs, they could do it too.

tom

--
I now have a problem with tomorrow. -- Graham

On May 26, 5:06*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2009, David Cantrell wrote:

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 06:12:45PM +0100, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

David Cantrell wrote:
No, they're not allowed to. *That's because to take your seat at
Westminster you need to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen.
If they were to do so they would obviously be lieing.

Wrong. Avowed republicans can and do take the oath

Not honestly they can't.

So?

Tony Banks has been mentioned as someone who took the oath with his
fingers crossed, and happily served as an MP afterwards. He was happy to
do it, and the Commons authorities were happy for him to do it. If Sinn
Fein were actually interested in being MPs, they could do it too.


Sinn Fein are deeply interested in being MPs, or rather TDs - but in
an Assembly of 'all-Ireland', not in Westminster.