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London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#1
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....apparently:
"London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced plans that he hopes will make the city the electric vehicle (EV) capital of Europe" - report from technology news site The Register: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05...capital_plans/ Two interesting excerpts from this story... ---quote--- Only 2500 of the charging posts will be installed and funded directly by the GLA. The remaining 22,500 will come as a result of the GLA working “with the [London] boroughs and other partners”. Further details of exactly what that means and, crucially, who’ll pay for the posts will follow in an announcement in November. ---/quote--- ....and... ---quote--- In related news, a report by analyst Frost and Sullivan has suggested that in order to promote widespread use of EVs governments must “ensure the availability of at least four charging points per EV in the first year”. If the analysis is correct then London alone will need 250,000 charge points by 2015, rather than the GLA's projected 25,000 points. ---/quote--- I'm all for electric cars, no doubt, but they're obviously not the magic solution to London's transport needs (though one fear Bozza & Co are capable of selling it as such). That said, it doesn't stop them playing a part in London's travel mix - page 9 of this Electric Vehicles Plan from the Mayor does at least set out some legitimate arguments as to why "London is the best potential market for EVs [Electric Vehicles] in the UK" - see (PDF): http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/publi...icles-plan.pdf And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. |
#2
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In message
, at 06:49:14 on Fri, 22 May 2009, Mizter T remarked: And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. -- Roland Perry |
#3
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message
In message , at 06:49:14 on Fri, 22 May 2009, Mizter T remarked: And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. Don't you need 3-phase for fast battery charging? Otherwise, it takes many hours. |
#4
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![]() On May 22, 9:56*pm, "Recliner" wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote: In message , at 06:49:14 on Fri, 22 May 2009, Mizter T remarked: And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it to where it's needed. Don't you need 3-phase for fast battery charging? *Otherwise, it takes many hours. Rather pathetically I'm on the edge of my knowledge when it comes to this field, but yes my understanding is that you do need a 3-phase supply for fast battery charging. The article I cited in the post that started this thread said that the Mayor's plan is for three types of charge points: (1) 13A, 240V slow charge points (2) 32A, 240V three-phase fast charge points (3) 200A, 500V three-phase rapid charge points N.B. Of the last category, the article says "the potential of these posts is still being 'investigated' ". It's also worth noting that the article says there'll only be 50 of the fast charge points (the second category) by 2012, with a further 150 by 2015. Presumably this is only counting the charging points that will be provided (or at least funded) by the Mayor/GLA/TfL - the bit I quoted earlier has the Mayor hoping that the boroughs and other partners will provide lots of others. |
#5
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![]() On May 23, 12:08*am, Mizter T wrote: [snip] (1) 13A, 240V slow charge points (2) 32A, 240V three-phase fast charge points (3) 200A, 500V three-phase rapid charge points N.B. Of the last category, the article says "the potential of these posts is still being 'investigated' ". I probably should have added something to display a suitable level of scepticism after quoting that! |
#6
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In message , at 21:56:46 on
Fri, 22 May 2009, Recliner remarked: And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. Don't you need 3-phase for fast battery charging? Otherwise, it takes many hours. You need DC to charge a battery, and that can be derived from 1-phase mains. But the supply would normally have to be 3-phase if you were wanting to draw much more than 25kw. -- Roland Perry |
#7
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![]() "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 06:49:14 on Fri, 22 May 2009, Mizter T remarked: And of course the electricity to power said vehicles needs to be generated somewhere and somehow - which is in itself a rather wider debate, and indeed one which is currently going on. And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. -- Roland Perry Just dig up the relevant bit of road/pavement and tap into the existing domestic supply cables that are under every street. This must have been the approach for the existing charging points, and it's hardly rocket science. D A Stocks |
#8
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In message , at 17:34:59 on Mon, 25 May
2009, David A Stocks remarked: And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. Just dig up the relevant bit of road/pavement and tap into the existing domestic supply cables that are under every street. This must have been the approach for the existing charging points, and it's hardly rocket science. You'll soon overload it if it's more than a few charging points per street. Nor does this approach solve getting the extra power from the outside world to the substations. -- Roland Perry |
#9
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![]() "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:34:59 on Mon, 25 May 2009, David A Stocks remarked: And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. Just dig up the relevant bit of road/pavement and tap into the existing domestic supply cables that are under every street. This must have been the approach for the existing charging points, and it's hardly rocket science. You'll soon overload it if it's more than a few charging points per street. A trickle-charge point is equivalent to a 13A socket inside a house. The distribution system would barely notice that, even if everyone started charging a car at the same time - we're talking about a system which copes with events like a third of the nation's households putting a kettle on the boil at the start of a TV commercial break. Fast charge points would probably require rationing, probably by making them expensive to use. The peaks in electricity demand tend to occur during the late afternoon when cars are more likely to be out on the road than sat on charging points. Nor does this approach solve getting the extra power from the outside world to the substations. We're talking about a gradual take-up over the next 20 years or so, and it should all be very predictable. I suspect the major challenge is generating the electricity, not the distribution. D A Stocks |
#10
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In message , at 21:51:54 on Mon, 25 May
2009, David A Stocks remarked: And in London the problem is distributing the electricity from the grid to the end users. Even if there was a plentiful source of electricity, you'd have to do quite a lot of work to get it where it's needed. Just dig up the relevant bit of road/pavement and tap into the existing domestic supply cables that are under every street. This must have been the approach for the existing charging points, and it's hardly rocket science. You'll soon overload it if it's more than a few charging points per street. A trickle-charge point is equivalent to a 13A socket inside a house. You want a bit more than a trickle charge - we were talking earlier about the use of three-phase and up to 100amps. Typical cars I've seen take about 3 hours at 12kw (that's 48amps) to charge up. Nor does this approach solve getting the extra power from the outside world to the substations. We're talking about a gradual take-up over the next 20 years or so, and it should all be very predictable. I suspect the major challenge is generating the electricity, not the distribution. More electricity requires more distribution. London is pretty much maxed out at the moment. -- Roland Perry |
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