"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
Paul Rigg wrote:

Well I'd like to know if they are taking St Mary's curve out ie the one
near WHitechapel that gives access to the District Line.

St. Mary's Curve is long gone. It was decommissioned in four stages after
the last service train on 22nd December 2007.

This concluded with a hoarding being erected in the tunnel approximately
50m East of the junction on the night of 12th January 2008, clear of the
District Line tracks.

Relevant Traffic Circulars are Issue 51 of 2007, 52/1 of 2007/8 and 2 of
2008 (still available on the LU Operational Standards site).

Cheers,

Barry

Is there any liklihood of this former link being used to reverse trains in
lieu of Whitechapel when reduced to 2 platforms?

DW down under

On May 22, 6:04*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Fri, 22 May 2009 09:42:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

On May 22, 5:32*pm, "Paul Rigg" wrote:
Well I'd like to know if they are taking St Mary's curve out ie the one near
Whitechapel that gives access to the District Line.

It was in for stock movements before but presumably will be redundant now.

I understand it's gone already - indeed, it went a while back, just
after the ELL closed for the extension works.

That's certainly my understanding too.

Thanks - confirmed by Barry Salter's post downthread, which references
the relevant LU Traffic Circulars.

wrote in message

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

* As a follow on thought to the overcrowding issue, could the line
take 6-car trains, including somehow getting over the obstacle of
short platforms at Canada Water?

5-car O/P stock trains were run on the East London for a time in the
1970s. The cars were only 51' 1 1/4" (15.58m) long though, so I
suppose that is shorter than 4 x 20m cars.

And there wasn't any Canada Water station back then.

On May 25, 12:09*am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

* As a follow on thought to the overcrowding issue, could the line
take 6-car trains, including somehow getting over the obstacle of
short platforms at Canada Water?

5-car O/P stock trains were run on the East London for a time in the
1970s. The cars were only 51' 1 1/4" (15.58m) long though, so I suppose
that is shorter than 4 x 20m cars.

As Recliner says, Canada Water wasn't around then - and nor were the
stations on the 'new' stretch of the line from Shoreditch High Street
up to Dalston Junction.

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On May 25, 12:09 am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

* As a follow on thought to the overcrowding issue, could the line
take 6-car trains, including somehow getting over the obstacle of
short platforms at Canada Water?

5-car O/P stock trains were run on the East London for a time in the
1970s. The cars were only 51' 1 1/4" (15.58m) long though, so I
suppose that is shorter than 4 x 20m cars.

As Recliner says, Canada Water wasn't around then - and nor were the
stations on the 'new' stretch of the line from Shoreditch High Street
up to Dalston Junction.

But I thought Canada Water was the one station that had platforms almost
impossible to extend (which is criminal, considering how recently it was
built)?

On May 25, 8:45*pm, "Recliner" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On May 25, 12:09 am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

* As a follow on thought to the overcrowding issue, could the line
take 6-car trains, including somehow getting over the obstacle of
short platforms at Canada Water?

5-car O/P stock trains were run on the East London for a time in the
1970s. The cars were only 51' 1 1/4" (15.58m) long though, so I
suppose that is shorter than 4 x 20m cars.

As Recliner says, Canada Water wasn't around then - and nor were the
stations on the 'new' stretch of the line from Shoreditch High Street
up to Dalston Junction.

But I thought Canada Water was the one station that had platforms almost
impossible to extend (which is criminal, considering how recently it was
built)?

That's kind of my point in the first place - I asked about "somehow
getting over the obstacle of short platforms at Canada Water?", which
was carefully phrased so as not to focus solely on the issue of the
difficulty in extending the platforms.

So what else can you do apart from extending the platforms - well,
there's Selective Door Opening (SDO). Of course, using SDO is hardly
ideal at busy stations, and Canada Water will almost certainly be the
ELL core's busiest station (maybe when Crossrail comes this could
change to Whitechapel though). But I would be interested to hear about
any thoughts with regards to the possibility of SDO at Canada Water
from people inside the ELLX project.

Also, with regards to platform lengthening at Canada Water, it'd also
be interesting to hear any thoughts about just how difficult this
would be.

I agree that from where we're standing today, the short ELL platforms
at Canada Water do look particularly short-sighted. However I remember
reading a post in the archives of utl which suggested that it was not
always a given that the ELL would even stop at Canada Water - I don't
know how much truth there is to that, but it's an interesting notion,
and if anyone knows any more about that please do speak up!

I suppose one could then say that actually this might have been
preferable - as new long platforms could then be built at Canada Water
as part of the ELLX project. However, apart from other considerations,
if interchange had not been required it would have meant there would
have been more freedom for the planners to place the Jubilee line's
'Rotherhithe peninsula' station somewhere else. Even if
retrospectively adding an interchange at a later date was possible, it
may have been difficult and led to a far less ideal interchange than
exists at Canada Water now.

If the idea that there may never have been an interchange in teh first
place has any merit, then perhaps we should just be grateful it exists
at all!

That said, I do wonder why no provision was made for longer platforms
- after all, the idea of extending the ELL started taking shape in the
early 90's. Perhaps the issue was that the notion of the line
interlinking with the mainline rail network didn't really gain
traction until later on - so the Jubilee line planners made the
presumption that the ELL would always be a four-car service.

If anyone can pad out the history, it'd be most appreciated.

My understanding was that the ground it's located in was just
particularly difficult to build a station in, and as the ELL was
somewhat of a backwater, why expend silly money on the most expensive
part, namely the tunnelling out of the station box.

On May 25, 9:36*pm, Jamie Thompson wrote:
My understanding was that the ground it's located in was just
particularly difficult to build a station in, and as the ELL was
somewhat of a backwater, why expend silly money on the most expensive
part, namely the tunnelling out of the station box.

OK, that makes sense - but it does somewhat beg the question as to why
no-one had the foresight to see what was coming for the ELL. I guess
the simplest answer is that the JLE was designed before the ELL
extension in the form we see today was really envisaged.

In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On May 25, 12:09 am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

* As a follow on thought to the overcrowding issue, could the line
take 6-car trains, including somehow getting over the obstacle of
short platforms at Canada Water?

5-car O/P stock trains were run on the East London for a time in the
1970s. The cars were only 51' 1 1/4" (15.58m) long though, so I
suppose that is shorter than 4 x 20m cars.

As Recliner says, Canada Water wasn't around then - and nor were the
stations on the 'new' stretch of the line from Shoreditch High Street
up to Dalston Junction.

But I thought Canada Water was the one station that had platforms
almost impossible to extend (which is criminal, considering how
recently it was built)?

My point being that 5-car CO/CP stock trains would have fitted in the
platforms at Canada Water, assuming they fit 4 x 20m car trains. AFAICS
the 5-car CO/CP stock trains were the longest run so far on the ELL.

Aren't the platforms at one of the other ELL stations as short and
impractical to extend as those at Canada Water anyway? Rotherhithe or
Wapping?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , Barry Salter
wrote:
Paul Rigg wrote:
Well I'd like to know if they are taking St Mary's curve out ie the
one near WHitechapel that gives access to the District Line.

St. Mary's Curve is long gone. It was decommissioned in four stages
after the last service train on 22nd December 2007.

However, I understand the long-term plan is to have an unelectrified
single-track link along the curve.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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