About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

"Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm


Plus ca change ...

Perhaps Bob Crow has French ancestors. ;-)

On May 28, 12:38*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

"Mizter T" wrote in message

On May 28, 12:38 pm, "Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate
disputes over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by
more than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of
strike action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

Yes, I wondered if his departure would lead to more strikes. It was
harder for the militant RMT to get its members to fight him.

In message
Mizter T wrote:


On May 28, 12:38*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

As it is a rerun of a previous ballot, I suspect that is unlikely. IIRC the
original ballot was in favour of stike action.

Assuming the BBC have got the facts correct I can't see any union going for a
5 year deal in the current situation. The other side is that a 5% pay claim
is also unrealistic. Sounds like both sides need their heads banging
together.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On 28 May, 14:54, rail wrote:
In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:







On May 28, 12:38*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

As it is a rerun of a previous ballot, I suspect that is unlikely. *IIRC the
original ballot was in favour of stike action.

Assuming the BBC have got the facts correct I can't see any union going for a
5 year deal in the current situation. *The other side is that a 5% pay claim
is also unrealistic. *Sounds like both sides need their heads banging
together.


These things are negotiating positions, which need to be followed by
negotiation. When the management won't negotiate, they refer to
"demands", but how does anyone state a negotiating position that
couldn't be described by someone else as a demand?

Strikes are generally the result of a management refusal to negotiate,
rather than the expectation of a "demand" being met in full.

On May 28, 5:04*pm, MIG wrote:

On 28 May, 14:54, rail wrote:

In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

[snip]

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

As it is a rerun of a previous ballot, I suspect that is unlikely. *IIRC the
original ballot was in favour of stike action.

Assuming the BBC have got the facts correct I can't see any union going for a
5 year deal in the current situation. *The other side is that a 5% pay claim
is also unrealistic. *Sounds like both sides need their heads banging
together.

These things are negotiating positions, which need to be followed by
negotiation. *When the management won't negotiate, they refer to
"demands", but how does anyone state a negotiating position that
couldn't be described by someone else as a demand?

Strikes are generally the result of a management refusal to negotiate,
rather than the expectation of a "demand" being met in full.

So I suppose another take on it could be 'Team Boris's' decision to
take a harder stance with the unions?

That would chime with many people's world view. However, TfL is under
massive financial pressures - a situation that can't really be said to
be of Boris's making - and there isn't a big pot of loot stashed away
somewhere, so perhaps LU are simply being rather more upfront about
the lack of cash at the start of the negotiations?

Though I suppose LU may well have realised that they'll have public
sentiment on their side more so than ever given the present economic
'climate' - an LU front-line job is after all pretty secure, pays
fairly well and comes with a pension.

You do make a good point about the use of the term "demands" MIG. It's
always hard to know what's really going on in these situations.

On 28 May, 17:04, MIG wrote:
On 28 May, 14:54, rail wrote:



In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

On May 28, 12:38*pm, "Recliner" wrote:
About 10,000 Tube workers have voted to strike on two separate disputes
over pay deals and proposed job losses.

The vote, by members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union,
was rerun after London Underground (LU) legally challenged a previous
ballot.

Workers will go on a 48-hour strike which will begin at 1859 BST on 9
June and end on 11 June.

The strike is expected to bring havoc to the Tube network, used by more
than three million passengers a day.

The RMT said the ballot result was "overwhelmingly" in favour of strike
action with 2,810 voting for and 488 against.

Earlier LU had said it believed the issues with the RMT could be
resolved without a strike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8071423.stm

Is this perhaps the RMT flexing their muscles now that the universally
liked and respected MD of London Underground, Tim O'Toole, has
departed?

As it is a rerun of a previous ballot, I suspect that is unlikely. *IIRC the
original ballot was in favour of stike action.

Assuming the BBC have got the facts correct I can't see any union going for a
5 year deal in the current situation. *The other side is that a 5% pay claim
is also unrealistic. *Sounds like both sides need their heads banging
together.

These things are negotiating positions, which need to be followed by
negotiation. *When the management won't negotiate, they refer to
"demands", but how does anyone state a negotiating position that
couldn't be described by someone else as a demand?

Strikes are generally the result of a management refusal to negotiate,
rather than the expectation of a "demand" being met in full.

Strikes are the result of strikers knowing that they can extract more
by threatening to strike or by actually striking.

In general, tube drivers can extract a lot because management is in a
very weak position.

Normally, if you end up with an intransigent work force, you could
build up stock, determine that strikers have resigned, and recruit new
staff. You can't build stock in a service industry so it's not an
option. So management have no choice but to give in to ever more
extreme demands.

"disgoftunwells" wrote in message



Strikes are the result of strikers knowing that they can extract more
by threatening to strike or by actually striking.

In general, tube drivers can extract a lot because management is in a
very weak position.

Normally, if you end up with an intransigent work force, you could
build up stock, determine that strikers have resigned, and recruit new
staff. You can't build stock in a service industry so it's not an
option. So management have no choice but to give in to ever more
extreme demands.

Yes, there's a long tradition in Britain and elsewhere of producers of
highly perishable goods (newspapers, trains, airlines, etc) being held
to ransom in this way. But such strikers can be defeated, as Murdoch and
Reagan (with air traffic controllers) showed. However, it's much harder
for a public transport organisation like TfL to stand up to such
demands. And MEP candidate Brother Crow has no love for either Labour or
the Tories, so he'll be delighted if either/both of them are damaged by
the strike.

On May 28, 6:24*pm, disgoftunwells wrote:

Normally, if you end up with an intransigent work force, you could
build up stock, determine that strikers have resigned, and recruit new
staff. You can't build stock in a service industry so it's not an
option. So management have no choice but to give in to ever more
extreme demands.

The circumstances are somewhat different, but during an illegal strike
on the Glasgow Subway in 2002, SPT sacked 32 (of 45) drivers, and it
seems at some point were considering shutting the service for three
months while they trained new staff [1]. In the end, they re-hired
them all, but under terms more favourable to the employer [2].

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2413407.stm
[2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2429645.stm