On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:-

given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing
to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out
in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and
back

AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to
take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but
it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and
Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including
people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running
time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from
a quick skim of the press release.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to
take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but
it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and
Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including
people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running
time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from
a quick skim of the press release.

As someone who used to regularly travel by train from Canterbury to the
Midlands (Tamworth), the much easier (i.e. Tube-free!) walk from St
Pancras to Euston would have been a godsend. And if it was raining then
I could just as easily have changed at St Pancras to Derby and thence to
Tamworth.

I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using
one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to
do the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push!

Jonathan

Mizter T wrote:

I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period
during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the
correct one) on HS1 at the moment.

It is called the white period, I think.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Jun 1, 5:20*pm, David Hansen
wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:-

given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing
to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out
in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and
back

AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to
take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but
it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and
Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including
people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running
time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from
a quick skim of the press release.

Just a reminder that Waterloo is only 57-59 mins to/from Ashford, with
the heart of the west end at Charing Cross only 60-63 mins away off-
peak. Plus these trains offer family- and group-friendly seating.

Even the crank in me can't get excited by the HS1 service.

On 1 June, 16:34, Mizter T wrote:
Very true.

I've just noticed that from Hastings it'll be quicker to take a
leisurely trip on the single track, unelectrified line to Ashford than
to take a direct train. Cor Blimey.

So you can add "a big corner of Sussex" to the area Ashford serves.

U

"Jonathan Stott" wrote in message
news
David Hansen wrote:

AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to
take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but
it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and
Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including
people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running
time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from
a quick skim of the press release.

As someone who used to regularly travel by train from Canterbury to the
Midlands (Tamworth), the much easier (i.e. Tube-free!) walk from St
Pancras to Euston would have been a godsend. And if it was raining then I
could just as easily have changed at St Pancras to Derby and thence to
Tamworth.

I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using
one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to do
the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push!


Good opportunity to raise questions about through journeys then.

Arriving at St Pancras clutching your Tamworth to Canterbury via London
ticket.
Will it still be marked 'any permitted'? Probably, until December.

Wander over to the Kent platforms looking to pay a single supplement,
intention to walk from Ebbsfleet for a connection (assuming there is one).
Will there be yet another ticket office at St P? That has never been
categorically answered, to my mind.

Will there be a refund of the part of your fare that pays for that cross
London transfer by tube, now that you don't need it? Probably not, but
eventually a through ticket by HS1 shouldn't need it, so there could be a
slight reduction - but then it would have to be marked 'not underground' -
my brain hurts now...

Paul S

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality),
and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and
back on a premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London.

Because that's what they had to promise.

TBH they have to do that to provide hourly services on each of the two lines
going forward. Splitting&joining an hourly service is undesirable (even if
they do do it with the classic service)

tim

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On Jun 1, 1:18 pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this
preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from
Ebbsfleet.

Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London.
I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a
run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't
see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a
premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London. And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style
offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least
are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but
wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they
judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK!

Hm!

Ashford station is in centre of town surrounded by an area not far short of
dereliction. It's a short walk from the shops.

But it is not easily accessible by car from outlying areas, and there is
almost nowhere to live (and certainly nowhere nice to live) that is a
reasonable walk from the station.

It doesn't make an idea park and ride IMHO.

tim

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 1 June, 13:18, Roland Perry wrote:
Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London.
I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a
run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't
see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a
premium service outside commuter hours.

Since - as you point out - Ashford has no amenities of its own, the
only way to have an evening out is to go up to London, and currently
that requires spending the best part of 3 hours on a train for the
round trip.

Not sure what sort of amenities you think are missing but I would have
though that the majority of "evenings out" destinations from Ashford would
be satisfied by a trip to Maidstone or Canterbury (not to mention a drive to
a pretty village pub, of which there are many)

tim

In message , at 17:54:01 on
Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Paul Scott remarked:
I guess with a 60-minute service from Canterbury to St Pancras and using
one of the few 60-minute services to Tamworth, it could be possible to do
the whole journey in 2.5 hours at a push!

Good opportunity to raise questions about through journeys then.

Arriving at St Pancras clutching your Tamworth to Canterbury via London
ticket.
Will it still be marked 'any permitted'? Probably, until December.

Wander over to the Kent platforms looking to pay a single supplement,

No supplement should be required for an "any permitted" ticket, although
perhaps HS1 isn't in the routing guide yet, so maybe it's a lacuna.

intention to walk from Ebbsfleet for a connection (assuming there is one).
Will there be yet another ticket office at St P? That has never been
categorically answered, to my mind.

There's no floorspace for one, as far as anyone can tell. Maybe it'll
share the strangely named "UK Rail" one operated by EMT.

Will there be a refund of the part of your fare that pays for that cross
London transfer by tube, now that you don't need it?

No, because there never has been before. All it does is add a leg on the
tube *if* your route needs one.

Probably not, but eventually a through ticket by HS1 shouldn't need
it,

Although last time I looked Tamworth services didn't arrive at St
Pancras, or was the OP travelling via Leicester?

so there could be a slight reduction - but then it would have to be
marked 'not underground'

I think you mean "without a Maltese Cross".
--
Roland Perry