[original thread on uk.raiwlay]
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

embers25 wrote:
SouthEastern have finally revealed the times and supplements for their
trial HS1 service starting on June 29th.

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/94


Thanks for the heads up. For the record, I'll just copy a bit of that
press release below:
---quote---
Southeastern today confirmed that a limited high speed ‘preview’
service will begin on the 29 June. The preview service will run on
High Speed 1 between Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International
and St Pancras International from Monday to Friday.The preview service
will offer passengers the chance to experience what the UK’s first
high speed service will be like when it is fully introduced on 13
December.

The preview services will also allow Southeastern to continue testing,
training, adjust to passenger feedback and ensure that the full
introduction of the service runs smoothly.

The high speed service will radically improve travel times for many
passengers, using the High Speed 1. Journey times from Ashford
International to London will be just 37 minutes and from Ebbsfleet
International the journey will take just 17 minutes. The preview
service will run three morning peak services from Ashford
International to St Pancras International and three peak services in
the evening peak. Trains from Ebbsfleet International will see four
morning peak services to St Pancras International and six peak
services back in the evening peak. Throughout the day services will
run twice hourly between Ebbsfleet International and St Pancras
International. The full timetable can be seen below.
---/quote---


So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this
preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from
Ebbsfleet.

A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able
to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the
class 395 trains are classless.

Southeastern have decided to use the term "Mainline" to differentiate
their regular services from the High-speed service - previously many
observers here seem to have copied the French terminology by speaking
of "Classic" lines.

And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection"
period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track
engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours.
This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December
2009."

I hadn't entirely realised there was an LGV style 'black-out' period
during the day (though that's not the right term but I forget the
correct one) on HS1 at the moment.


Supplements seem quite hefty but I get the impression when the real
service kicks in they will be even higher.

The formula for the 'via HS1' fares premium is no secret, it's
published in the Southeastern franchise documents. The Ashford
supplement for the preview service is the same as for the full service
and is in line with this formula.

On Jun 1, 11:54*am, Mizter T wrote:

And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection"
period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track
engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours.
This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December
2009."

Interesting. Presumably this is currently fitted around 'white
periods' on the LGV Nord.

"EE507" wrote in message
...
On Jun 1, 11:54 am, Mizter T wrote:

And lastly the timetable notes a "Daylight HS1 track inspection"
period around noon, though then goes on to say that "Currently track
engineers inspect high speed infrastructure during daylight hours.
This is being reviews for the start of the full service in December
2009."

Interesting. Presumably this is currently fitted around 'white
periods' on the LGV Nord.
------
What's the point of daylight inspection between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras?
Most of it is in tunnel, so daylight makes no difference.

There's a gap between E* departures from St Pancras between 1100 and 1229
(except on Fridays and Sundays). However there is no corresponding gap
between arrivals, which are at approximately hourly intervals at that sort
of time of day.

Peter

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:37:55 +0100 someone who may be "Peter Masson"
wrote this:-

There's a gap between E* departures from St Pancras between 1100 and 1229
(except on Fridays and Sundays). However there is no corresponding gap
between arrivals, which are at approximately hourly intervals at that sort
of time of day.

Is work (including inspections) banned on both lines when trains are
running at normal speed, or is work permitted on one line when the
other is open for normal running? It was reported here that this was
banned in France after the death of some staff and either both lines
are closed or a speed restriction imposed on both of them (can't
remember which, it may vary).





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message
, at
03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:
So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this
preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from
Ebbsfleet.

Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London.
I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a
run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't
see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a
premium service outside commuter hours.

A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able
to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the
class 395 trains are classless.

Maybe the First Class premium is higher than the HS1 premium (Ashford's
FDR is more than twice the price of a SDR). The trip is short enough
that they couldn't serve a decent breakfast. Speaking of which, does
anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains?
--
Roland Perry

On Jun 1, 1:18 pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:54:07 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

So, they'll only be offering peak time trains from Ashford during this
preview service, but there'll be an all day half-hourly service from
Ebbsfleet.

Perhaps they are expecting people to use Ebbsfleet as a P&R for London.
I'd certainly give that try if I lived nearby on the M25. Ashford is a
run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality), and I can't
see why people would want to travel from there to London and back on a
premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London. And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style
offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least
are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but
wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they
judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See:
http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05


A few other things I noted - "all first class ticket holders are able
to travel on the high speed service for no extra cost". Also, AIUI the
class 395 trains are classless.

Maybe the First Class premium is higher than the HS1 premium (Ashford's
FDR is more than twice the price of a SDR). The trip is short enough
that they couldn't serve a decent breakfast. Speaking of which, does
anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains?

None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at
least I haven't heard of anything. Unless I'm missing something, the
longest journey time is going to be 91 minutes to Margate (it ain't
called "high-speed" for nothing!) - see this table of journey times:
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk.../pages/view/66

A while back Southeastern produced a helpful PDF map which compared
"High-speed" versus "Mainline" journey times from places in Kent to
London - it's long since disappeared off their website but I'm sure I
saved it somewhere, as it helps to illustrate things.

In the meantime there are maps of both the High-speed peak and off-
peak service patterns linked to from this webpage...
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk....php/highspeed

....however I've found the server that, er, serves them to be a bit on
the slow side so I've uploaded 'some that I saved earlier' to a bit of
webspace - hence they can be found here (PDFs):

* Peak
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/High...k_services.pdf
* Off-peak
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/High...k_services.pdf

In message
, at
07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the
reality), and I can't see why people would want to travel from there
to London and back on a premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London.

Because that's what they had to promise.

And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style
offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least
are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but
wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they
judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See:
http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05

They have very strange criteria. In any event I worked in Ashford for a
few months, and it's not as hot as they suggest. Maybe they are thinking
about some of the surrounding villages?

does anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains?

None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at
least I haven't heard of anything.

Not even a trolley?

--
Roland Perry

On Jun 1, 3:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

Ashford is a *run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the
reality), and I can't *see why people would want to travel from there
to London and back on a *premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London.

Because that's what they had to promise.

Indeed - but I wouldn't be surprised to see a market emerge for the
new HS service, a mix of transferred traffic from the Mainline routes
and new passenger


And Ashford could also perhaps provide a P&R style
offering for those in the surrounding area, areas of which at least
are quite affluent. Also, I don't know Ashford at all well but
wikipedia pointed me in the way of this Channel 4 survey where they
judged it the fourth best place to live in the UK! See:
http://tinyurl.com/C4-best-places-to-live-05

They have very strange criteria. In any event I worked in Ashford for a
few months, and it's not as hot as they suggest. Maybe they are thinking
about some of the surrounding villages?

I offered that list with no particular comment one way or the other,
just as a contrast to your words - that said I'm pretty sceptical of
such things. Maybe they were thinking about some of the surrounding
countryside, which is rather pleasant.

Also, as Mr Thant eloquently phrased it downthread, Ashford is "the
junction station for a large part of
Kent" - given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing
to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out
in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and
back - of course it all depends on the circumstances (or should I say
their circumstances), e.g. how big the travelling party is, what the
child fares are like, whether Group Save discounts will be available,
will Network Railcards be valid etc.


does *anyone know what catering they *are* providing on these trains?

None - or rather I should so I'm not sure there us going to be any, at
least I haven't heard of anything.

Not even a trolley?

Pass - dunno.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:09:04 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:-

given the quicker journey, I can imagine people being willing
to shell out on the HS1 premium so as to spend longer having a day out
in London instead of spending that time on the train getting there and
back

AOL. The difference in journey times will be dramatic. It seems to
take all day to get from London to Ashford by trains to Dover, but
it is a different thing altogether by trains going to Paris and
Brussels. I imagine lots of people will pay the premium, including
people who didn't use the train before. The difference in running
time caused by 140mph running seems to be less than 10 minutes from
a quick skim of the press release.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
07:24:46 on Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Mizter T remarked:

Ashford is a run-down provincial town (sorry, but that's the reality),
and I can't see why people would want to travel from there to London and
back on a premium service outside commuter hours.

Though come the full service there will be 2tph off-peak from Ashford
into London.

Because that's what they had to promise.

TBH they have to do that to provide hourly services on each of the two lines
going forward. Splitting&joining an hourly service is undesirable (even if
they do do it with the classic service)

tim