On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:41:53 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 10, 11:33*pm, asdf wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

I know the NLL is crazy busy during morning and evening peaks, but how
hectic does is get on the DC line?

Actually, I neglected to mention that I was writing that about the DC
line (though I bet the NLL wasn't pretty either).

On 10 June, 23:33, asdf wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:12 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
It is very odd that the TfL website doesn't seem to deal with Overground
service status terribly well.

It looks like the NLL and Euston Watfords are suffering a bit "due to an
unusually large passenger flow" - what a lovely turn of phrase.

They're crowded enough in the a.m. peak on a normal day (to the point
of people regularly being left behind on the platform) - I was a bit
surprised that media reports were emphasising that the route was
running, as most people wouldn't have a hope of getting on.

And on top of the strike, the London Midland service was well and
truly stuffed by a signal failure in the Carpenders Park area.

So I imagine the sport of "how many people can you fit in a 313?" was
well practised this morning.

Apparantly LO are running additional services Harrow & Wealdstone -
Kilburn High Road, to take some of the load off. There was certainly a
313 in Harrow sidings yesterday morning and there platform displays
were advertising the service this morning too.

From experience, the LO trains are full on the Euston to/from about
Willesden / Wembley section during a normal peak, but you can usually
get on. As soon as there is any disruption to either the London
Midland or Bakerloo services, you'd be hard put to get on at
intermediate stations. Yesterday things wouldn't have been helped by
the lack of Southern services, as these are quite busy on Watford -
Shepherds Bush / Kensington Olympia leg and this was the part
cancelled due to the Carpenders Park problem.

On 9 June, 18:32, wrote:
On Jun 9, 4:58*pm, MIG wrote:





On 9 June, 16:41, wrote:

On 9 June, 14:49, MIG wrote:

On 9 June, 14:40, wrote:

On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.

It can't be that simple though, because it has to allow for
Metropolitan trains in both directions, doesn't it? *So there must be
something from the up Chiltern to the Met as well as the diamond from
the Met to the down Chiltern, even if nothing from platform 1 to the
up Chiltern?

Platform 1 is only accessible from the Down Chiltern and the NB Met
fast, via the diamond crossing, heading north (to the NB Met fast),
with no access heading south without a shunt. Platform 2 only has
access to the Up Chiltern, heading south from the SB Met fast, or the
NB Met fast heading north via the trailing crossover. There is no
access to other Met line tracks (i.e. the both southbound, NB slow or
the Uxbridge lines). Met line trains only use Platform 1 heading
north, from the NB fast or platform 2 reversing from SB to NB. There
are no other Met line possibilities, with the current layout.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah right, so you can't take the Met south through platform 2, I think
you are saying, and it's electricked only for reversing back north.
That seems a bit unbalanced given that you can go north through
platform 1, but if that's the way it is ... *Hard to tell from
diagrams.

That's right. To go south to the Met from platform 2 would require
crossing both northbound tracks, so all crossing moves happen at
Harrow North Junction, where only the NB slow is crossed. On the other
hand, using platform 1 for NB Met fast services takes only takes them
across the SB Chiltern and gives extra platform capacity in the
evening peak.-

A bit late to go back to this one, but I got round to checking the
right Quails. The Southern (most up-to-date) edition corresponds
exactly to what you say, with the electrification not even extending
from platform 2 as far back as the diamond.

But the Western edition is very different, showing more
electrification and difficult to interpret whether there's a
crossover, because of the colours not quite lining up. I wonder if
there has been a change in recent years or one there was a mistake?

MIG wrote:
On 9 June, 18:32, wrote:

That's right. To go south to the Met from platform 2 would require
crossing both northbound tracks, so all crossing moves happen at
Harrow North Junction, where only the NB slow is crossed. On the
other hand, using platform 1 for NB Met fast services takes only
takes them across the SB Chiltern and gives extra platform capacity
in the evening peak.-

A bit late to go back to this one, but I got round to checking the
right Quails. The Southern (most up-to-date) edition corresponds
exactly to what you say, with the electrification not even extending
from platform 2 as far back as the diamond.

That is correct. There is no route SB from platform 2, other than up to
Marylebone. Electrification ends at the south end of the platform. In
practise, the only services that use P2 are terminating trains from the
north, that then run back to Rickmansworth to stable. AFAIR that only
actually consists of one evening service at around 20:15.

"asdf" wrote in message
...


Actually, I neglected to mention that I was writing that about the DC
line (though I bet the NLL wasn't pretty either).

It wasn't (excuse me coming to this late). I was on the very crowded train
scheduled to leave Gospel Oak for Clapham Junction around 0920 on Thursday.
All trains through Gospel Oak seemed to be running around 6-10 minutes late
just because of extra time at stations to handle the crowds. The driver
announced that a freight train had been routed immediately in front of us
and we had to wait at the platform until the freight train had cleared
Hampstead Tunnel - that's past the next station and then some. I wonder
whether that's a single block section or whether there's some other
safety-related issue. So we were around 15 minutes late at Clapham, and at
Willesden Junction in particular staff were stopping people from trying to
board the train

Martin

On 13 June, 20:50, MIG wrote:
On 9 June, 18:32, wrote:





On Jun 9, 4:58*pm, MIG wrote:

On 9 June, 16:41, wrote:

On 9 June, 14:49, MIG wrote:

On 9 June, 14:40, wrote:

On 9 June, 00:38, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Oh ang on though, if they used platform 1 at HotH, I think there may
be a crossover. *Not sure if it isn't just a track crossing to/from
the Metropolitan or if it leads to/from the up Chiltern track as well.

I can't remember if this crossover can be used from Up departures from
Platform 1 at Harrow. My memory tells me that there is no signal for
this route. What I can't remember is if the crossover from the NB Fast
to the Platform 1 just passes over the intervening Up line or whether
there is pointwork in the Up line allowing access.

There isn't pointwork - it's one of those things that I think is
referred to as a diamond crossing.

Thanks, I though it probably was, but couldn't remember.

It can't be that simple though, because it has to allow for
Metropolitan trains in both directions, doesn't it? *So there must be
something from the up Chiltern to the Met as well as the diamond from
the Met to the down Chiltern, even if nothing from platform 1 to the
up Chiltern?

Platform 1 is only accessible from the Down Chiltern and the NB Met
fast, via the diamond crossing, heading north (to the NB Met fast),
with no access heading south without a shunt. Platform 2 only has
access to the Up Chiltern, heading south from the SB Met fast, or the
NB Met fast heading north via the trailing crossover. There is no
access to other Met line tracks (i.e. the both southbound, NB slow or
the Uxbridge lines). Met line trains only use Platform 1 heading
north, from the NB fast or platform 2 reversing from SB to NB. There
are no other Met line possibilities, with the current layout.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah right, so you can't take the Met south through platform 2, I think
you are saying, and it's electricked only for reversing back north.
That seems a bit unbalanced given that you can go north through
platform 1, but if that's the way it is ... *Hard to tell from
diagrams.

That's right. To go south to the Met from platform 2 would require
crossing both northbound tracks, so all crossing moves happen at
Harrow North Junction, where only the NB slow is crossed. On the other
hand, using platform 1 for NB Met fast services takes only takes them
across the SB Chiltern and gives extra platform capacity in the
evening peak.-

A bit late to go back to this one, but I got round to checking the
right Quails. *The Southern (most up-to-date) edition corresponds
exactly to what you say, with the electrification not even extending
from platform 2 as far back as the diamond.

But the Western edition is very different, showing more
electrification and difficult to interpret whether there's a
crossover, because of the colours not quite lining up. *I wonder if
there has been a change in recent years or one there was a mistake?

There were quite a few mistakes introduced when Quail switched to
colour and the Western version is definately wrong. I don't think that
there have been any changes to the electrification on the 'Chiltern'
platforms for many years, possibily not since the 1960s.