On Jun 9, 6:10*pm, Tom Barry wrote:

Peter Masson wrote:
------
Unless either TfL, or SWT and Southeastern, change their advice (and in
the case of TfL, publicise any changes very clearly) I can foresee big
arguments.
What about a passenger whose normal route, using PAYG because he only
travels two or three days a week, so a season ticket is uneconomic, is
bus to North Greenwich then Jubilee Line to Bond Street. A sensible
alternative route would be Southeastern from Charlton to Victoria,
changing at Blackheath, then bus or walk. IMHO that route mirrors the
passenger's normal tube route, and even on their restricted view,
Southeastern should allow it.


BBCTravelWatch (via Twitter) are pretty adamant that TfL are sticking to
the 'valid all over' line:

'#Strike: One hour folks... spoke to TfL over the oyster PAYG issue;
they say SWT and Southeastern's info is out of date oyster WILL be taken'

So there you are. *If you get caught, refer the bill to TfL. *I'm
half-tempted to take the day off and go riding.


Interesting, thanks. Funnily enough I was going to start an entirely
new thread about BBC London's travel updates on Twitter, which I
stumbled across recently. Afraid I'm rather disparaging about the
whole Twitter malarkey, but nonetheless this is something that could
potentially be useful - though I'm not sure whether one really wants a
travel news text message every 10 minutes!

The "BBCTravelAlert" Twitter 'feed' can however be seen via the web
here (with a nice old photo of a Routemaster in the old Victoria bus
station as a background):
http://twitter.com/bbctravelalert

spotted this on FCC

Note: Some PAYG customers using FCC services to make journeys on these
'additional' PAYG routes will not be able to correctly 'touch in' or
'touch out' due to some FCC stations within the London Travelcard area
not having Oyster validators.

To prevent PAYG customers being charged for an incomplete journey in
these instances, the Oyster system will be set up to automatically
complete any journey starting or ending at a Zone 1 station where the
customer touches in/out. The charge made will be based on a journey
between the customer’s 'usual' start/finish station and the Zone 1
station where they touched in/out:

e.g. a PAYG customer who normally travels to/from Hendon Central to St
Pancras International will be charged for a PAYG journey from Hendon
Central to/from Zone 1.

Important note: this automatic completion process does not always work
and PAYG customers are advised that they may incur an incomplete
charge of £4 or £5. TfL are planning automatic refunds of any
incomplete charges incurred in Zone 1 on the days of industrial
action. If you have a query about the amount you have been charged or
you haven’t received an automatic refund within a week, please contact
the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876.


What if you don't have a "normal" journey?!

In message
,
writes
Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross
Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. Is this a
Southeastern route? I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.


--
Clive Page

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

This should say "London Bridge to Cannon...". Some muppet in SN's PR
department has managed to drag and drop "Bridge to" into the next
paragraph down.

Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

There are certainly Oyster readers on the exists at Charing Cross;
what their PAYG status will be tonight/tomorrow/Thursday I don't know.
And there are certainly validators by the platforms that FCC use at
London Bridge.

London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

Yup indeed.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jun 9, 3:55*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross

This should say "London Bridge to Cannon...". Some muppet in SN's PR
department has managed to drag and drop "Bridge to" into the next
paragraph down.

Shabby. Though the blame lies with Southeastern's PR department, not
Southern's.


Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

There are certainly Oyster readers on the exists at Charing Cross;
what their PAYG status will be tonight/tomorrow/Thursday I don't know.

No go - they are for checking season Travelcards loaded on Oyster
*only*. There are currently *no* PAYG routes from Charing Cross. And
they can't magic this up overnight either.

And there are certainly validators by the platforms that FCC use at
London Bridge.

Solely to handle Thameslink traffic - Oyster PAYG being valid on
Thameslink between West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle
*only*.

This page and the PDF map it links to make this clear:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx


London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

Yup indeed.

Agreed.

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:
In message
,
writes





Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross
Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

It's on the list I've quoted above, so I can't imagine that one being
controversial. Perhaps print off that page from the Southeastern
website?

The lack of validators isn't relevant in this case as the guidance
everywhere seems to be 'just show your Oyster at the gateline rather
than touching it [and you won't get charged anything]'.

For the record, both Charing Cross and London Bridge do have Oyster-
enabled gates, but at the moment they are the 'dumb' sort of readers
that just check whether a valid season is loaded on the Oyster in
question (rather than handling the complexities of PAYG).

On Jun 9, 3:58*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:

In message
,
writes

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross
Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

It's on the list I've quoted above, so I can't imagine that one being
controversial. Perhaps print off that page from the Southeastern
website?

The lack of validators isn't relevant in this case as the guidance
everywhere seems to be 'just show your Oyster at the gateline rather
than touching it [and you won't get charged anything]'.

For the record, both Charing Cross and London Bridge do have Oyster-
enabled gates, but at the moment they are the 'dumb' sort of readers
that just check whether a valid season is loaded on the Oyster in
question (rather than handling the complexities of PAYG).

Correct with regards to the readers on the automatic gates. Note that
Oyster PAYG is valid on the FCC Thameslink route between West
Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle, but at London Bridge
this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers
on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let
out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink
- the gates will not open for you.

On Jun 9, 4:23*pm, Mizter T wrote:

, but at London Bridge
this requires one to touch-in or out on the standalone Oyster readers
on the Thameslink platforms and then you have to go and ask to be let
out the side gate after explaining that you've used PAYG on Thameslink
- the gates will not open for you.-


Is that right ) I did not know that. I've previously had a PAYG
Oyster and now have a staff free Oyster but I don't recall ever
needing to use either at LB.


--
Nick

On Jun 9, 3:36*pm, Clive Page wrote:

In message
,
writes

Southeastern seem to have taken matters into their own hands in quite
a forceful way:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk..._items/view/95

Southeastern has agreed to accept valid tickets for the Underground –
both paper tickets and Oyster Pay As You Go – on services that mirror
Tube routes on our network.

So during the strike we will accept London Underground passes
(including Oyster PAYG) during the strike on the following routes
only:

Brixton to Victoria
Elephant and Castle to Blackfriars / City Thameslink
London Cannon Street / Waterloo East / Charing Cross
Outside these routes the usual ticket restrictions and Penalty Fares
will be applicable as normal.

Hmm. *I need to get from Luton to central London on Thursday - I'm
planning to go from Luton to London Bridge (valid on a ticket to "London
Thameslink") and then get a train to Charing Cross. *Is this a
Southeastern route? * I have an Oyster card I can show, but I don't see
how they can charge it unless there are readers both on platforms 5/6 at
London Bridge and the exits at Charing Cross. *As far as I recall, they
don't yet exist at either, does anyone know?

There are Oyster readers on the Thameslink platforms at London Bridge
*but* these are _only_ for people starting or finishing their journey
on FCC Thameslink and who were using Oyster PAYG to pay for their
journey (it's valid for all stations on teh Tha,eslink route between
West Hampstead and London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle) - so *don't*
touch-in on them.

When you get to Charing Cross, the gates of course have Oyster readers
on them *but* these are _only_ equipped to check and see if there is a
season Travelcard held on that ticket - currently they *do not* handle
Oyster PAYG, because Oyster PAYG is not normally valid on any mainline
trains out of Charing Cross.


London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charing Cross is a pretty clear parallel
to a tube journey, I'd have said.

Yes. Simply show your Oyster card on arrival at Charing Cross. You
won't end up paying anything.