On Jun 9, 6:52*pm, wrote:
spotted this on FCC

Note: Some PAYG customers using FCC services to make journeys on these
'additional' PAYG routes will not be able to correctly 'touch in' or
'touch out' due to some FCC stations within the London Travelcard area
not having Oyster validators.

To prevent PAYG customers being charged for an incomplete journey in
these instances, the Oyster system will be set up to automatically
complete any journey starting or ending at a Zone 1 station where the
customer touches in/out. The charge made will be based on a journey
between the customer’s 'usual' start/finish station and the Zone 1
station where they touched in/out:

e.g. a PAYG customer who normally travels to/from Hendon Central to St
Pancras International will be charged for a PAYG journey from Hendon
Central to/from Zone 1.

Important note: this automatic completion process does not always work
and PAYG customers are advised that they may incur an incomplete
charge of £4 or £5. *TfL are planning automatic refunds of any
incomplete charges incurred in Zone 1 on the days of industrial
action. If you have a query about the amount you have been charged or
you haven’t received an automatic refund within a week, please contact
the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876.

Thanks very much for the spot!
For the record, the above information can be found on the FCC website
he
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...=MajorIncident


What if you don't have a "normal" journey?!

Good question. In fact I'm intrigued as to how it'd supposedly work
anyway, and whether it's even possible. Perhaps it's wrong, but has
been thrown in there simply because people need some kind of
explanation? I'm wondering if people will simply be charged for a zone
1 or zone 1&2 journey, something like that? Or has the 'entry fare'
system been turned off, as I speculated elsewhere?

At least FCC are honest in saying that people may incur some £4 and £5
charges.

I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both
TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. SWT are adamant
they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said
they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as
described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. I'm waiting for
SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the
incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!!
Other point of humour was that the TFL info line was swithced off
today saying that they were expecting call volumes that were too high
to deal with and so they were unable to answer any! How can something
so simple be so complex.

On Jun 9, 7:55*pm, wrote:
I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both
TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. *SWT are adamant
they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said
they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as
described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. *I'm waiting for
SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the
incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!!

How interesting - there seems to be a direct disagreement between TfL
and at least some of the TOCs on what this agreement constitutes then.

Perhaps anyone getting PF'd should simply give their name and address
as Boris Johnson, City Hall...

Other point of humour was that the TFL info line was swithced off
today saying that they were expecting call volumes that were too high
to deal with and so they were unable to answer any! *How can something
so simple be so complex.

I dunno about earlier, but I've just tried it now (i.e. 8pm) and the
option to speak to a travel advisor existed, though when I chose that
option I was unsurprisingly put in a queue (I've hung up as I don't
need to talk to them). The introductory recorded message (somewhat
incongruously spoken by a bloke with an Aussie accent!) didn't say
they weren't taking calls either - though did direct one towards the
web and also to TfL's SMS response service.

On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:07:12 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

On Jun 9, 7:55*pm, wrote:
I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both
TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. *SWT are adamant
they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said
they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as
described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. *I'm waiting for
SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the
incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!!

How interesting - there seems to be a direct disagreement between TfL
and at least some of the TOCs on what this agreement constitutes then.

This is the text from newsrail express (as posted on another non usenet
group)

Industrial action affecting London Underground services - 9th to 11th
June 2009

As you may be aware, the RMT Union has called for its members employed
by London Underground (LU) to take industrial action for 48 hours from
1859 on Tuesday 9th June.

"London Underground will be issuing revised ticketing and refund
instructions as soon as possible - please disregard the previous
instructions that we (ATOC) were supplied that appeared here yesterday.

Important: It should also be especially noted that Transport for
London/London Underground are advising customers that Oyster PAYG is
being accepted on all National Rail services in Greater London. This is
not what has been agreed with the Train Companies. PAYG will only be
accepted on 'reasonable alternative' routes, these being determined and
advised locally by each TOC.

In the meantime staff should politely advise customers enquiring about
Travelcard refunds or PAYG charges to contact London Underground
Customer Services on 0845 330 988 or the Oyster help line on 0845 330
9876 as appropriate."

-------

Ouch. As I said, a "direct disagreement" Not ideal, to say the least.

I wonder if this is perhaps more Boris & co's doing - I wasn't
thinking that beforehand, but we know he's keen on what he calls
"Oysterisation" and I can perhaps imagine him and his City Hall
advisers wanting to put across a simple message and be a hero of the
strike breaking London commuters - so I wonder if word has come down
from the Mayor's office to TfL that overrules any objections on the
'Oyster PAYG on NR' message - leaving the TOCs to simply having to
accept it as a fait accompli, having had their hand successfully
forced by Boris/ TfL?

Regardless of who's at fault here, once this strike is over you can be
sure as hell that this agreement between TfL and ATOC/ the TOCs will
be revisited in great detail.


I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are
*not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike.

OK, thanks. So FGW/ HC from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington, then bus
from directly outside the station to Heathrow it is then!

On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are
*not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike.

Well HEx are not really a TOC in the formal sense of the term ... they
can really do what they wish.

Best think of HEx as the people mover to LHR Terminal 0.

--
Nick

On Jun 9, 9:48*pm, wrote:

On Jun 9, 8:40*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

I am sure I have read somewhere that Heathrow Express most certainly are
*not* passing LUL ticket holders or PAYG users during the strike.

Well HEx are not really a TOC in the formal sense of the term ... they
can really do what they wish.

Best think of HEx as the people mover to LHR Terminal 0.

That's all true - the point I made in my earlier comments is that I
think passengers might not make this distinction, so when they hear
that Oyster PAYG is being accepted "on all National Rail journeys
within Greater London" as TfL are declaring they might think they can
use HEx with an Oyster card. That said, it's possible TfL's blanket
declaration is a bit dodgy too. Hard to say without having seen the
text of the agreement, and said text is presumably commercially
confidential.

(Regardless TfL perhaps have a get out clause in that they could turn
round and say that HEx doesn't fall within the commonly understood
meaning of "National Rail" anyway.)

My other thought is that BAA's business does rather rely on their
staff and customers being able to reach Heathrow. But from what Paul
has said, it seems HEx is excluded.

In article
,
() wrote:

I talked directly to SWT and TFL and the mayors office today and both
TFL and the mayors office say Oyster will be valid. SWT are adamant
they will be refusing them except on the advertised routes and said
they were expecting numerous complaints but that the agreement was as
described in newsrail express and Southeastern agree. I'm waiting for
SWT to try to penalty fare someone for using Oyster as per the
incorrect National Rail and TFL instructions!!!

I got myself and bike from Vauxhall to my mother's in Putney tonight using
my Oyster card. At both barriers I got "Seek Assistance" from it so they
just shrugged and let me through for free.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...

I got myself and bike from Vauxhall to my mother's in Putney tonight using
my Oyster card. At both barriers I got "Seek Assistance" from it so they
just shrugged and let me through for free.
--
Colin Rosenstiel

I know someone who had a similar experience doing return trip from Penge to
Victoria.

D A Stocks

I went from London Bridge to Charing Cross today, showing my Oyster card
at the manned barrier at Charing Cross. The man on duty told me to
touch it on the pad, but I refused pointing out that I had not touched
in (as I changed directly from a FCC train there). He asked me where I
had come from: London Bridge was obviously the correct answer, as he
then let me through. This does suggest that SE trains were being
selective in allowing Oyster card usage.

--
Clive Page

On 11 June, 20:46, Clive Page wrote:
I went from London Bridge to Charing Cross today, showing my Oyster card
at the manned barrier at Charing Cross. *The man on duty told me to
touch it on the pad, but I refused pointing out that I had not touched
in (as I changed directly from a FCC train there). *He asked me where I
had come from: London Bridge was obviously the correct answer, as he
then let me through. *This does suggest that SE trains were being
selective in allowing Oyster card usage.

I undistinctly heard an announcement at Peckham Rye today, which may
have referred to Southern or South Eastern or both, saying that PAYG
would be accepted as long as your journey was similar to your LU
route, or something on those lines.

As for touching at Charing Cross, your Oyster would simply be rejected
unless it had a valid Travelcard on it. It wouldn't have resulted in
an unstarted PAYG journey. I don't know why staff would suggest that
you touched unless they assumed that you had a Travelcard.