"Stimpy" wrote the following in:


"Robin May" wrote in message
...

Hacker is to computer as boy racer is to Ford Escort.

Vauxhall Nova these days, surely? The boy racer Escorts of old
are all becoming collectors items now.

I don't seem to see many Vauxhall Novas around here at all. I suppose
it's true that Ford Escorts aren't all the common as boy racer cars
these days. Fiestas, Corsas, Golfs, they seem to be the big things now.
You do still get a few Escorts, but they're not the proper ones
intended for the purpose. They're the ones where they fit massive alloy
wheels which reveal the tiny brakes, put a sticker in the back window
and replaced the rear lights with ones that are meant to look better
but just look rubbish.

--
message by Robin May, consumer of liquids
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Hacker is to computer as boy racer is to Ford Escort.

There is a few problems,

1) Each tunnle is generaly only single direction, so trains can only travel
one way - the protection systems are set to protect it.
2) Some maintainance is reguly on systems that affect the signalling system,
and since it is controlled on a station basis, killing one tunnle would kill
them both.
"Paul Weaver" wrote in message
news
As I understand it, the tube has to be closed overnight because of
maintenance work. The NYC subway has 4 tunnel lines so they can be open
all night.

What about a limited service using just one track? You'd have one train
running back and forth between 2 to 3 stations. Take the victoria for
example, one train would run Brixton - Stockwell - Vauxhall - Pimlico -
Victoria and back again, giving a frequency of one train every 20 minutes
in each direction, then a train would run victoria to kings cross, again a
20 minutes service, kings cross - seven sisters, seven sisters -
waltahstow.

As only one tunnel would be used, the other could be maintained. Until 4AM
the trains could be timetabled to allow leaving the center easilly,
minimising connections - on the victoria line the victoria - kings x train
would arrive, then leave, then a minute later the kx - seven sisters train
would arrive. After 4AM the flow would be reversed allowing access to the
city.

If the service was popular enough, you could have trains running every 10
minutes, so brixton-vauxhall, vauxhall-victoria, vic-oxcirc ox-kingsx,
kingsx-finsbury, fins-tottenham hale, th - walthamstow
Central could be ealing broadway - north acton - white city - notting hill
- bond street - holburn - liverpool street - stratford - leytonstone
Piccadilly could be finsbury - kingsx - holburn - green park - glocester
road - Hammersmith

Well, you get the idea. Going against the traffic flow would take a long
time, but going with the flow should only take an extra 10 minutes per
hour. I'm guessing outside the tunnels it's easy to switch trains from one
track to another allowing trains to pass each other at key points. With
careful timetabling and planning, routine maintenence could be done
while a limited service would still be operational.

Is there a demand for all night services?

Sad but true...

Btw, where on LUL do you work?

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:34:51 +0100, Paul Weaver
wrote:

As I understand it, the tube has to be closed overnight because of
maintenance work. The NYC subway has 4 tunnel lines so they can be open
all night.

What about a limited service using just one track? You'd have one train
running back and forth between 2 to 3 stations. Take the victoria for
example, one train would run Brixton - Stockwell - Vauxhall - Pimlico -
Victoria and back again, giving a frequency of one train every 20 minutes
in each direction, then a train would run victoria to kings cross, again
a
20 minutes service, kings cross - seven sisters, seven sisters -
waltahstow.
[snip]

this will seem like a negative answer but I'm trying to tell it
straight.

typically the signalling system will not allow this form of reverse
working. It would also be expensive to install for relatively little
benefit.

There are considerable safety issues concerning working in adjacent
"closed" tunnels or even within the stations which would need to remain
open. Huge amounts of maintenance works occur right throughout the
stations at night including those jobs which cannot be undertaken when
trains run because there are restrictions on working too close to the
platform edge. Even simple tasks like deep cleans or use of mechanical
cleaners cannot be done if people are traipsing through the stations.

There is the fact that very large scale improvement projects are planned
across the LUL network over the next few years and they need amounts of
time when the system is closed to allow efficient working. I'm not
saying it's impossible to work round a limited night service but
delivery of these improvements would be much later than planned.

Is there a demand for all night services?

If you look at the demand for night buses and taxis the answer would
appear to be yes. However I think the demand is different to daytime
demand as there is not a lot of short hop, zone 1 travel. It is much
more about Zone 1 to home with possibly a bit of zone 2 to home travel
for those inner london areas with popular clubs, pubs etc. This is
certainly reflected in the Night Bus network design and the usage
thereof.

Another big issue with your proposed "staggered" service pattern would
be how it is communicated to and understood by people who to a large
degree are not at the height of their faculties after a night on the
time. There are too many accidents associated with alcohol at present
and a more complicated service pattern that would not necessarily run
from the "normal" platforms or the "normal" direction could present
increased safety risks. The management of those passenger flows and
identifying which train is going where would be a considerable issue.

Just some thoughts which I'm pretty sure will be derided by the core
faction of anti LUL sentiment on the group.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Darren Wiltshire" wrote in message
.. .
Sad but true...

Btw, where on LUL do you work?

Blimey I thought all the LUL Staff had buggered off this group!
I hope he,s a driver!!
You lot are overpaid bone idle *******s who go on strike at the drop of a
hat for no bog roll!!
There! Now wait for action!!

"Ivor Smallone" wrote the following in:


snip

There! Now wait for action!!

Please do not feed the trolls.

--
message by Robin May, consumer of liquids
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Hacker is to computer as boy racer is to Ford Escort.

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:57:04 +0100, "Darren Wiltshire"
wrote:

Sad but true...

Btw, where on LUL do you work?

in an office. More than that I am not saying on a newsgroup given past
experiences on this group.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

They could what they do in NYC in the 2 track areas run buses around the work
areas eg runbuses between Russell Sq and Picadilly Circus

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:38:53 +0100, Pre-38 wrote:


"Boltar" wrote in message don't suspect theres a
hope in hell of getting *any* LU staff to work night shifts (who don't
have
to already past about 1am) without a payrise never mind the drivers.

Well would you? just to take aload of ****heads home.

Sorry, I didnt realise that LUL staff didn't gat paid. I work nights but
I'm compensated with money

In message , Boltar
writes

Also don't forget theres there question of money. Not only the extra
cost of powering the trains in the night but staff wages. I don't
suspect theres a hope in hell of getting *any* LU staff to work night
shifts (who don't have to already past about 1am) without a payrise
never mind the drivers.
I don't know about now, but 30 years ago in my time on Northern and
Central lines, we did work nights. The last and first trains were
operated by the same crews and in winter were sometimes called on to run
snow clearing trains on outside sections.
--
Clive

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:46:34 +0100, "Ivor Smallone"
wrote:


"Darren Wiltshire" wrote in message
. ..
Sad but true...

Btw, where on LUL do you work?

Blimey I thought all the LUL Staff had buggered off this group!

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

I hope he,s a driver!!

Oh no - I'm far worse than that.

You lot are overpaid bone idle *******s who go on strike at the drop of a
hat for no bog roll!!

Quite right too. I do no work at all but have never been on strike.

There! Now wait for action!!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!