Is the 102 the only route which is described as being a 24-hour bus, but in
reality has different termini for day and night (Brent Cross in the day,
Golders Green in the small hours)?

Is the N29 the only bus where half of the buses stop short (on Friday and
Saturday nights, half the buses terminate at Wood Green)?

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you in big
letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote saying that
the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the exact times of the 50%
which are short journeys... no-one realised that giving the exact times of
the long journeys might be more useful than giving the exact times of the
short ones... or just giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact
that the timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little care to
special cases.

On Jul 27, 12:37*am, "Basil Jet"
wrote:
Is the 102 the only route which is described as being a 24-hour bus, but in
reality has different termini for day and night (Brent Cross in the day,
Golders Green in the small hours)?

Is the N29 the only bus where half of the buses stop short (on Friday and
Saturday nights, half the buses terminate at Wood Green)?

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you in big
letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote saying that
the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the exact times of the 50%
which are short journeys... no-one realised that giving the exact times of
the long journeys might be more useful than giving the exact times of the
short ones... or just giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact
that the timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little care to
special cases.

Not 100% certain about the 102 but it might be the only example like
that. However there are other examples where night versions are much
longer than day examples - N41 and N73 are two local to me. The 271
is also odd in that M-F daytime it terminates at Finsbury Square
whereas at night and at weekends it runs to Liverpool Street Station.

The N29 is far from unique in having differential termini - many night
routes have such a pattern - N9, N159, N3, N8, N18 etc.

If you want the detailed timetables then, as always, the answer is
www.londonbusroutes.net . However the N29 is so frequent, even to
Enfield Town, that is hardly a disaster if you have to wait 12 minutes
for the next one. If it was only every 30 mins then I agree that would
be more irksome.

--
Paul C
via Google

The 65 has recently been extended from Kingston to Chessington world
of adventures at night only.

I expected them to bring back the "N65" designation but they didn't,
instead they put an awkward half-blue-background map on the bus stops,
on which the estimated time drops by some minutes immediately after
Kingston.
Perhaps there is now a general policy not to invent new N designations
when the route is an extension of the original route.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:37:21 +0100, Basil Jet wrote:

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you in big
letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote saying that
the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the exact times of the 50%
which are short journeys... no-one realised that giving the exact times of
the long journeys might be more useful than giving the exact times of the
short ones... or just giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact
that the timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little care to
special cases.

It's even worse for the N18. The N18 runs to Sudbury Town every 10
minutes, with every third bus continuing to Harrow Weald. However, the
timetables at stops (e.g. Trafalgar Square) don't mention the fact
that any of the buses terminate at Sudbury, i.e. they make it look
like there's a 10-minute-frequency service through to Harrow Weald.

The worst part is that there's no indication of what times the Harrow
Weald buses actually run, which I think is unacceptable for a
half-hourly service.

On 27 July, 11:07, David wrote:
The 65 has recently been extended from Kingston to Chessington world
of adventures at night only.

I expected them to bring back the "N65" designation but they didn't,
instead they put an awkward half-blue-background map on the bus stops,
on which the estimated time drops by some minutes immediately after
Kingston.
Perhaps there is now a general policy not to invent new N designations
when the route is an extension of the original route.

How is this signposted on the bus stops?
If a bus stop is along the at-night-only part of the route yet the bus
doesn't have an N-prefix, wouldn't it make it look as if the bus
stopped there at all times?

On 27 July, 08:00, plcd1 wrote:
On Jul 27, 12:37*am, "Basil Jet"





wrote:
Is the 102 the only route which is described as being a 24-hour bus, but in
reality has different termini for day and night (Brent Cross in the day,
Golders Green in the small hours)?

Is the N29 the only bus where half of the buses stop short (on Friday and
Saturday nights, half the buses terminate at Wood Green)?

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you in big
letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote saying that
the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the exact times of the 50%
which are short journeys... no-one realised that giving the exact times of
the long journeys might be more useful than giving the exact times of the
short ones... or just giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact
that the timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little care to
special cases.

Not 100% certain about the 102 but it might be the only example like
that. However there are other examples where night versions are much
longer than day examples - N41 and N73 are two local to me. *The 271
is also odd in that M-F daytime it terminates at Finsbury Square
whereas at night and at weekends it runs to Liverpool Street Station.

The N29 is far from unique in having differential termini - many night
routes have such a pattern - N9, N159, N3, N8, N18 etc.




The N89 is one of the oddest routes, because while many routes have to
do a direct trip from Trafalgar Square to where they join their normal
route, eg the N47 and N21 at London Bridge, the N89 has to find an
route all the way to Lewisham, and it's nothing like the route of any
day bus.

asdf wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:37:21 +0100, Basil Jet wrote:

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you
in big letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote
saying that the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the
exact times of the 50% which are short journeys... no-one realised
that giving the exact times of the long journeys might be more
useful than giving the exact times of the short ones... or just
giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact that the
timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little
care to special cases.

It's even worse for the N18. The N18 runs to Sudbury Town every 10
minutes, with every third bus continuing to Harrow Weald. However, the
timetables at stops (e.g. Trafalgar Square) don't mention the fact
that any of the buses terminate at Sudbury, i.e. they make it look
like there's a 10-minute-frequency service through to Harrow Weald.

The worst part is that there's no indication of what times the Harrow
Weald buses actually run, which I think is unacceptable for a
half-hourly service.

If it's this timetable here...
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000062ee.pdf
.... the times of the Harrow Weald buses are hudden in the footnotes... but
there is no clue as to where the other buses terminate, so unless you are
going exactly to Harrow Weald, this timetable doesn't tell you whether you
have 6 buses an hour or 2. It seems to me that the main timetable panels
having an S after the time of each Sudbury bus would be a much better
solution, but I guess perceived simplicity is a higher priority than actual
simplicity. They need to learn from Einstein's (mis)quote... Make things as
simple as possible, but not simpler.

I'm not sure why they are using Long Elmes as a destination either.... are
people in Paddington Green trying to get a bus to Warren Street supposed to
know that Long Elmes is the wrong way? Do the N18s have Long Elmes written
on the front?

We should get together with news:misc.transport.urban-transit to run an
annual Most Misleading Transport Information In The World Competition, and
this timetable should be the British candidate. The prize could be an
engraved watch with a working second hand, no hour or minute hands, and the
dial replaced by the dial of a compass.

On 27 July, 15:10, "Basil Jet"
wrote:
asdf wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:37:21 +0100, Basil Jet wrote:

BTW, I am mildly amused by the timetables for the N29 which tell you
in big letters that there is a bus ever 6-8 minutes, with a footnote
saying that the following buses only go to Wood Green, giving the
exact times of the 50% which are short journeys... no-one realised
that giving the exact times of the long journeys might be more
useful than giving the exact times of the short ones... or just
giving the times of all the buses, utilizing the fact that the
timetable repeats every hour anyway. As usual with TfL information,
a one-size-fits-all policy is applied to everything, with little
care to special cases.

It's even worse for the N18. The N18 runs to Sudbury Town every 10
minutes, with every third bus continuing to Harrow Weald. However, the
timetables at stops (e.g. Trafalgar Square) don't mention the fact
that any of the buses terminate at Sudbury, i.e. they make it look
like there's a 10-minute-frequency service through to Harrow Weald.

The worst part is that there's no indication of what times the Harrow
Weald buses actually run, which I think is unacceptable for a
half-hourly service.

If it's this timetable here...http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000062ee.pdf
... the times of the Harrow Weald buses are hudden in the footnotes... but
there is no clue as to where the other buses terminate, so unless you are
going exactly to Harrow Weald, this timetable doesn't tell you whether you
have 6 buses an hour or 2. It seems to me that the main timetable panels
having an S after the time of each Sudbury bus would be a much better
solution, but I guess perceived simplicity is a higher priority than actual
simplicity. They need to learn from Einstein's (mis)quote... Make things as
simple as possible, but not simpler.

I'm not sure why they are using Long Elmes as a destination either.... are
people in Paddington Green trying to get a bus to Warren Street supposed to
know that Long Elmes is the wrong way? Do the N18s have Long Elmes written
on the front?

We should get together with news:misc.transport.urban-transit to run an
annual Most Misleading Transport Information In The World Competition, and
this timetable should be the British candidate. The prize could be an
engraved watch with a working second hand, no hour or minute hands, and the
dial replaced by the dial of a compass.-

No; Milton Keynes would win every prize, and that wouldn't be fair.

MIG wrote:

The N89 is one of the oddest routes, because while many routes have to
do a direct trip from Trafalgar Square to where they join their normal
route, eg the N47 and N21 at London Bridge, the N89 has to find an
route all the way to Lewisham, and it's nothing like the route of any
day bus.

It's not a particularly unreasonable route from Trafalgar Square to
Lewisham, though. The N41 route from Archway to Trafalgar Square is odder.

On 27 July, 15:40, "Basil Jet"
wrote:
MIG wrote:

The N89 is one of the oddest routes, because while many routes have to
do a direct trip from Trafalgar Square to where they join their normal
route, eg the N47 and N21 at London Bridge, the N89 has to find an
route all the way to Lewisham, and it's nothing like the route of any
day bus.

It's not a particularly unreasonable route from Trafalgar Square to
Lewisham, though. The N41 route from Archway to Trafalgar Square is odder.

No; it's more that I wonder why there isn't a day route going that way.