On 12 Aug 2009 15:13:06 GMT, Adrian wrote:
Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it?

Yes, it waill save at least two thirds of the CO2 an equivalent petrol
engined car produces, making it comparable to public transport.


Where's this electricity coming from, then?

From a 13A domestic socket or a dedicated three-phase charging pillar.

Not for you, obviously. You can go on the bus or stew on the Tube. ;-)

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

If the car is charging for 12 hours, you won't even need a full 13A
supply, so you are talking complete and utter rubbish.

Hmm.

13A * 240V = 3KW

230v nominal, but that does work out to 3kW.

3KW for 12 hours input assuming no loses is the same as 36KW (about
50hp) output for 1 hour.

Call me cynical but....

The Leaf's battery is reckoned to be 25kWh - either they've come up with
some amazingly hyper-efficient charging or it's going to be very, very
tight indeed...

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it?

Yes, it waill save at least two thirds of the CO2 an equivalent petrol
engined car produces, making it comparable to public transport.

Really...?

Where's this electricity coming from, then?

From a 13A domestic socket or a dedicated three-phase charging pillar.

I was thinking about a bit further back in the wiring than the socket.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I understand your scepticism, but the Nissan Leaf and its Renault
equivalent (the two companies are closely linked) will be the first
available mass production electric cars.

No, they won't. Not by a long chalk.

Well there aren't *any* at the moment.

shrug Still doesn't mean "first".

All available electric cars, from the £8299 G-Wizz to the £64000 Tesla
Roadster, are low volume, mostly handmade products.

Leaving aside the C1 ev'ie - which is a low-volume modification of a mass
produced car - you seem to have forgotten about the various electric PSA
products of the '90s - Saxos, 106s, Berlingos etc. All "mass-produced" in
reasonable volume (I've not seen any production figures, but I'd suspect
into four figures) alongside the internal combustion versions. La
Rochelle wasn't their only reason for production - they were standard
production models, on UK price lists, especially the Berlingo.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:52:26 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Also I wonder how many house fires they might end up causing if a few
hundred amps is put through ancient wiring for 12 hours without a break.

At a rough guess, zero. If you try to put "a few hundred amps"
through the wring of any house I've ever lived in you will get
something along the lines of "phut", "bang" or possibly "click" and
the lights will go off. If you're lucky the utility fuse won't be the
one that went.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/
"Nullius in Verba" - take no man's word for it.
- attr. Horace, chosen by John Evelyn for the Royal Society

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:19:54 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:
Also, if you're saying we should all stop using the Tube and overground
rail for getting around London, where the hell's the road space coming
from?


They won't need any more road space than the cars they will be
replacing, so it's a non-problem.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Also, if you're saying we should all stop using the Tube and overground
rail for getting around London, where the hell's the road space coming
from?

They won't need any more road space than the cars they will be
replacing, so it's a non-problem.

OK, thank you for confirming you really don't have the slightest clue.

On 12 Aug 2009 15:30:25 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Where's this electricity coming from, then?

From a 13A domestic socket or a dedicated three-phase charging pillar.

I was thinking about a bit further back in the wiring than the socket.


The problem is, you weren't thinking at all.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:27:09 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:10:08 +0100
Bruce wrote:
Not only will electric cars save CO2, but there will be a massive
reduction in other pollutants, notable particulates and oxides of
nitrogen. Many UK cities are already in breach of current legal
limits on those pollutants, and the limits are about to be tightened
further.

Hmm, now I wonder why that is. Could it be the popularity of diesel engines
in cars which were the ecomentalists engine of choice only a few years ago?

What was it they all chanted? We shouldn't use nasty petrol engines which give
off tiny amounts of particulates and virtually no gases other than CO2 and
water vapour from their catalysed exhaust, no , lets use something which
belches out buckets of filth even with filters but outputs ever so slightly
less CO2 per km. *sigh*


Well, as usual, you have comprehensively missed the point. The next
round of tightening of emissions regulations for cars will make diesel
engines virtually as clean as petrol engines from the point of view of
particulates. The oxides of nitrogen are more of a problem for petrol
cars.

The legislation that is being tightened is that for pollutants in city
air. Obviously, the sources for these include cars, vans, lorries,
buses, trains and aircraft as as well as other industrial and domestic
sources. But the legislation is about air quality, not about
emissions from individual vehicles.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:31:15 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

The Leaf has a claimed range of 100 miles, but most electric cars
achieve much less than the claimed range in normal driving. On a 240v
household supply, it will take eight hours to recharge, so for most
people, the maximum miles per day that they could do would be about 80,
and maybe less if they want to be sure of getting home (after all, you
can't just pop in for a fill-up when the red light comes on).

I've only once had a commute longer than that, though. and that was
135 miles round trip from Reading to Gosport, which is quite extreme.

The average UK commute is 8.5 miles or 45 minutes. Either would be
within the capabilities of most plug-in electric cars. I still think
that plug-in hybrids are likely to be more practical long-term and
it's not very likely (IMO) that alternatives to the internal
combustion engine will become widespread in this application, unless
something very spectacular happens in the hydrogen fuel cell market.
There is a large infrastructure for selling petrol to motorists and it
would need significant adaptation to support anything much else - look
how uncommon LPG stations are.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/
"Nullius in Verba" - take no man's word for it.
- attr. Horace, chosen by John Evelyn for the Royal Society