"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message , at 14:09:42 on
Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Recliner remarked:
Nissan's model will include leasing the very expensive battery
pack, which will make the purchase price of the car competitive
with comparable petrol and diesel engined models while still
costing at least 20% less to run.

Assuming the treasury doesn't find a way to tax
electricity-for-motoring at 500% like it does petrol and diesel. I
look forward to fun and games with the Excise turning up to see if
you've illegally topped up your car with "Red electrons".

Even if they fail to do that, I bet the favourable tax treatment of
electric cars won't last long, once they get more popular. And if you
need some sort of special power socket to charge more powerful
electric cars, that would give them to opportunity to insist on a
special meter, so maybe they would be able to tax anyone with an
"electron guzzler".

Substantial new infrastructure will be required, so that gives an
opportunity for "special sockets" at home as well as at communal
charging points.

The infrastructure is needed for all those homes where the car isn't
parked in the drive, and for neighbourhoods where the electrical
supply hasn't been sized to allow everyone to draw an extra 100amps
continuously (ie almost all of them).

Yes, that's a very good point. Imagine if every house in the street was
charging its electric car(s) overnight -- it's pretty unlikely that the
local sub-station and wiring could handle the load. It may be OK if just
one or two houses use 13amp sockets, but not if the whole street is
doing it for hours on end.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:45:32 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Yes, that's a very good point. Imagine if every house in the street was
charging its electric car(s) overnight -- it's pretty unlikely that the
local sub-station and wiring could handle the load. It may be OK if just
one or two houses use 13amp sockets, but not if the whole street is
doing it for hours on end.

Also I wonder how many house fires they might end up causing if a few
hundred amps is put through ancient wiring for 12 hours without a break.

B2003

wrote in message
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:45:32 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Yes, that's a very good point. Imagine if every house in the street
was charging its electric car(s) overnight -- it's pretty unlikely
that the local sub-station and wiring could handle the load. It may
be OK if just one or two houses use 13amp sockets, but not if the
whole street is doing it for hours on end.

Also I wonder how many house fires they might end up causing if a few
hundred amps is put through ancient wiring for 12 hours without a
break.

I think the car needs no more than 13 amps from a 240v domestic supply
for eight hours for a full charge, or can be charged very much more
quickly using a 400v 3-phase supply (not available in many houses, of
course). So individual houses may be OK charging one electric car, but
the neighbourhood supply may run out of juice if they're all doing it at
once.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:56:35 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:
wrote in message
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:45:32 +0100
"Recliner" wrote:
Yes, that's a very good point. Imagine if every house in the street
was charging its electric car(s) overnight -- it's pretty unlikely
that the local sub-station and wiring could handle the load. It may
be OK if just one or two houses use 13amp sockets, but not if the
whole street is doing it for hours on end.

Also I wonder how many house fires they might end up causing if a few
hundred amps is put through ancient wiring for 12 hours without a
break.

I think the car needs no more than 13 amps from a 240v domestic supply
for eight hours for a full charge, or can be charged very much more
quickly using a 400v 3-phase supply (not available in many houses, of
course). So individual houses may be OK charging one electric car, but
the neighbourhood supply may run out of juice if they're all doing it at
once.


... which is why a charging infrastructure will be put in place. The
first scheme, in London, is being finalised.

Not only will electric cars save CO2, but there will be a massive
reduction in other pollutants, notable particulates and oxides of
nitrogen. Many UK cities are already in breach of current legal
limits on those pollutants, and the limits are about to be tightened
further.

So the electric car is the way to go; unlike electrifying the
railways, there will actually be a substantial CO2 benefit.

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

... which is why a charging infrastructure will be put in place. The
first scheme, in London, is being finalised.

Uh-huh. Capable of supporting how many cars? Please bear in mind that few
people in London are guaranteed a parking space in the immediate vicinity
of their homes.

And why can't these Londoners use the superb public transport in place
across the city, for an even bigger benefit?

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it? Where's this electricity coming from, then?

Adrian wrote:
Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

... which is why a charging infrastructure will be put in place. The
first scheme, in London, is being finalised.

Uh-huh. Capable of supporting how many cars? Please bear in mind that few
people in London are guaranteed a parking space in the immediate vicinity
of their homes.

And why can't these Londoners use the superb public transport in place
across the city, for an even bigger benefit?

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it? Where's this electricity coming from, then?

Also, if you're saying we should all stop using the Tube and overground
rail for getting around London, where the hell's the road space coming
from? Using London as an example of why rail is unsuitable as a future
transport technology is like using Gordon Ramsay as an example of why
the British can't do cooking.

Tom

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:19:54 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:
Also, if you're saying we should all stop using the Tube and overground
rail for getting around London, where the hell's the road space coming
from?


They won't need any more road space than the cars they will be
replacing, so it's a non-problem.

On 12 Aug 2009 15:13:06 GMT, Adrian wrote:
Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it?

Yes, it waill save at least two thirds of the CO2 an equivalent petrol
engined car produces, making it comparable to public transport.


Where's this electricity coming from, then?

From a 13A domestic socket or a dedicated three-phase charging pillar.

Not for you, obviously. You can go on the bus or stew on the Tube. ;-)

Bruce gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Not only will electric cars save CO2

Will it?

Yes, it waill save at least two thirds of the CO2 an equivalent petrol
engined car produces, making it comparable to public transport.

Really...?

Where's this electricity coming from, then?

From a 13A domestic socket or a dedicated three-phase charging pillar.

I was thinking about a bit further back in the wiring than the socket.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 03:13:06PM +0000, Adrian wrote:

And why can't these Londoners use the superb public transport in place
across the city, for an even bigger benefit?

We do, except that not all our journeys are in London or to places with
convenient public transport. Something like half the cars parked on my
road seem to be used only at weekends.

--
David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.