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#1
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Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED lit. I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it yet? (I'd have tried it out for myself, but was on my way to the park...) |
#2
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In message
, at 09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin remarked: Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED lit. I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it yet? Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is allowed?) -- Roland Perry |
#3
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On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin remarked: Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED lit. I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it yet? Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is allowed?) a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless. b) the presence of an Oyster reader doesn't mean PAYG is allowed. c) however, if someone were to touch their PAYG Oyster card in at Ally Pally, and it were to beep in a 'normal' fashion', flash green and then charge them for a PAYG journey, then there's no way in hell FCC could get away with penalising them for travelling without a valid ticket. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
#4
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On 11 Aug, 18:14, John B wrote:
On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin remarked: Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED lit. I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it yet? Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is allowed?) a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless. Unless they are extending their journey beyond their zone on another side of London ... But they don't provide such readers at all the other ungated stations where travelcards are valid. Maybe it's a special case because PAYG is accepted on parts of FCC? b) the presence of an Oyster reader doesn't mean PAYG is allowed. c) however, if someone were to touch their PAYG Oyster card in at Ally Pally, and it were to beep in a 'normal' fashion', flash green and then charge them for a PAYG journey, then there's no way in hell FCC could get away with penalising them for travelling without a valid ticket. -- John Band john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#5
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On Aug 11, 6:25*pm, MIG wrote:
On 11 Aug, 18:14, John B wrote: On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin remarked: Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED lit. I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it yet? Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is allowed?) a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless. Unless they are extending their journey beyond their zone on another side of London ... Good point. I've been caught out like that (luckily in an 'oops, sorry' way, rather than a 'gbp20 fine' way) at LHR, having not touched in my Z12 at Finsbury Park when I lived there. But they don't provide such readers at all the other ungated stations where travelcards are valid. *Maybe it's a special case because PAYG is accepted on parts of FCC? I'm sure it's *there* in preparation for PAYG being enabled for NR. Why it's been switched on already is a harder ask (my top 3 options are mistake, testing, and FCC having come to an agreement earlier than the south-of-river TOCs which they'll announce shortly). In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
#6
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#7
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John B wrote:
[Oyster validator at Ally Pally] Why it's been switched on already is a harder ask (my top 3 options are mistake, testing, and FCC having come to an agreement earlier than the south-of-river TOCs which they'll announce shortly). I would guess it's more a case of Cubic not wanting to have to send Engineers out to do a mass switch on when PAYG is finally accepted, as the validators at Palmers Green, Edmonton Green and Silver Street are all turned on as well (though generally still covered). As for why it's uncovered, I'd be inclined to suggest that that's down to the local scrotes arsing about. Cheers, Barry |
#8
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On Aug 11, 6:32*pm, John B wrote:
In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens... I took a detour on my way home this evening, and gave it a go myself (stopping via Finsbury Park, where I also touched out at a standalone reader, and bought a paper ticket just in case) And... it seems to have worked. I went down to Wood Green tube and got a journey history printout, which shows Wood Lane - Finsbury Park (at £0.00) followed by Wood Lane - Alexandra Palace at £3.80, then the next line says *cap applied*. This price is also the same as the z1-3 PAYG off-peak cap with Railcard discount, most of which makes sense. The journey history on a ticket machine listed "Wood Lane - Alexandra Palac", and had "Via Z3LO" at the end of the line (although the O had fallen off the edge of the display a little). I'm not quite sure what higher price it was trying to charge me, or whether this is likely to be the actual price charged once PAYG is properly accepted for this route. It's useful to know though that I (unofficially) have the option if I'm heading into town and the Piccadilly Line's not working - and not bad value, provided it's after 9.30am. Of course, it's still a bit of a grey area if one is north of Finsbury Park and encounters an ticket inspector - though that's never happened to me on a FCC train. Incidentally, the readers on the platform were still wearing their jackets. |
#9
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Paul Corfield wrote:
I can recommend a read of the minutes of the newly re-established Panels for TfL. Lots of detail that you don't see in the Board minutes or Commissioners report. Further to this, and with due regard to Paul's position, it does appear that the former Rail Transport Advisory Panel and Underground Advisory Panel disappeared with the advent of Boris (the RTAP's last Agenda from 13/2/2008 hopefully states 'Date Of Next Meeting: Tuesday 20 May at 2.00pm'). They then mysteriously reappear after a Board decision in late September 2008, with meetings held on 26/2/2009, 20/5/2009 and 10/7/2009. Now, three things should be noted from this: first off, someone in Boris's team thought that the Panels weren't worth keeping and canned them in May 2008. The timing of the Board meeting that reinstated them strongly suggests that it was Tim Parker who binned them, as he resigned in mid-August 2008, and it sounds like his sort of thing (cut and cut with no understanding). We therefore lost getting on for a year of TfL being run under a system that both Mayors now seem to think is appropriate, which can't be good really. The second thing that is noticeable is that it's no longer considered necessary to consider rail and underground separately, which possibly gives some indication of the priority given to them in the current administration. Backing this view, the Surface Panel (roads n stuff) is chaired by Steve Norris, while the Rail and Underground one gets Chris Garnett. Well, at least it's not 'Jarvis' Norris - he's not someone you want to see near your railway. The third thing is that there are four panels, and Daniel Moylan is on every single one, which answers the question 'who's in charge here, then?'. Big road nut of course, Moylan is. Tom |
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