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London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#1
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:34:40 +0100
"Tim Fenton" wrote: Dave Hill's London Blog concludes so, from recent comments and articles: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...on-london-publ c-transport-fares Boris potentially proving yet again that it is actually possibly to make Ken Livingstone seem like a forward thinking intellectual in retrospect. How many more years until we can vote this buffoon out? B2003 |
#3
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![]() On Sep 10, 10:51*am, wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:34:40 +0100 "Tim Fenton" wrote: Dave Hill's London Blog concludes so, from recent comments and articles: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...oris-johnson-l... c-transport-fares Or via http://tinyurl.com/m53plb Boris potentially proving yet again that it is actually possibly to make Ken Livingstone seem like a forward thinking intellectual in retrospect. How many more years until we can vote this buffoon out? Afraid a forthcoming fare rise is no surprise. There is also the electoral timetable to consider, as Paul C has pointed out in the past - significant fare rises in January 2011 or 2012 will be too close to the May 2012 Mayoral election. Dave Hill refers to Boris saying "Why shouldn't I save up the good news?" when pressed on the issue during yesterday's Mayor's Question Time. I dare say the "good news" that Boris is keen to announce is that agreement has finally been reached with the mainline TOCs that Oyster Pay-as-you-go will be accepted across all National Rail routes in London (though it's far from clear that the final deal has yet been signed - last minute wrangling is quite possible) - the Mayor will make a massive fanfare of this, and the hope will presumably be that it takes the limelight whilst the fare rises are shoved backstage. P.S. Here's the link to Walmar's Evening Standard article on the topic (referred to by Dave Hill): http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ils/article.do |
#4
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Mizter T wrote:
On Sep 10, 10:51 am, wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:34:40 +0100 "Tim Fenton" wrote: Dave Hill's London Blog concludes so, from recent comments and articles: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehil...oris-johnson-l... c-transport-fares Or via http://tinyurl.com/m53plb Boris potentially proving yet again that it is actually possibly to make Ken Livingstone seem like a forward thinking intellectual in retrospect. How many more years until we can vote this buffoon out? Afraid a forthcoming fare rise is no surprise. There is also the electoral timetable to consider, as Paul C has pointed out in the past - significant fare rises in January 2011 or 2012 will be too close to the May 2012 Mayoral election. Dave Hill refers to Boris saying "Why shouldn't I save up the good news?" when pressed on the issue during yesterday's Mayor's Question Time. I dare say the "good news" that Boris is keen to announce is that agreement has finally been reached with the mainline TOCs that Oyster Pay-as-you-go will be accepted across all National Rail routes in London (though it's far from clear that the final deal has yet been signed - last minute wrangling is quite possible) - the Mayor will make a massive fanfare of this, and the hope will presumably be that it takes the limelight whilst the fare rises are shoved backstage. The 'inflation + 1%', expected to be -0.4%, cannot cause a reduction in individual PAYG fares anyway for the reasons discussed before, that single fares aren't high enough and they only use whole 10p steps. So the best that can be expected is a freeze. In fact I expect most of the daily caps aren't high enough to go down either, except perhaps the furthest extremities outside the basic 6 zones... Paul S |
#5
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Paul Scott wrote:
The 'inflation + 1%', expected to be -0.4%, cannot cause a reduction in individual PAYG fares anyway for the reasons discussed before, that single fares aren't high enough and they only use whole 10p steps. So the best that can be expected is a freeze. In fact I expect most of the daily caps aren't high enough to go down either, except perhaps the furthest extremities outside the basic 6 zones... Paul S Agreed, but it would be nice if someone looked at, say, last year's increase and this years and made the resulting cumulative increase approximate to (RPIlastyear+1)*(RPIthisyear+1). However, I suspect what will happen is that the lot will go up 10p or more. I've long speculated that we'll have at least a £1.40 single Oyster PAYG bus fare by the time Boris has finished with us. Still, it's one way of reducing the price differential with National Rail PAYG, raise Tube prices to NR levels! Tom |
#6
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![]() On Sep 10, 12:38*pm, "Paul Scott" wrote: [snip] The 'inflation + 1%', expected to be -0.4%, cannot cause a reduction in individual PAYG fares anyway for the reasons discussed before, that single fares aren't high enough and they only use whole 10p steps. So the best that can be expected is a freeze. In fact I expect most of the daily caps aren't high enough to go down either, except perhaps the furthest extremities outside the basic 6 zones.... All good and well, but my understanding is that TfL fares are not subject to any regulatory regime as such - i.e. unlike National Rail fares - so the whole forthcoming issue of enforced 'inflation-linked decreases' (YKWIM!) doesn't apply, at least not to wholly TfL fares. (The current Oyster price caps are of course set 50p below the quasi- equivalent Day Travelcard price, though I wouldn't be entirely surprised if post-January there are two caps - the present one at 50p less than the Travelcard, plus a cap that includes NR travel and is set at the same price as a Travelcard. We shall see...) |
#7
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On Sep 10, 12:07*pm, Mizter T wrote:
Dave Hill refers to Boris saying "Why shouldn't I save up the good news?" when pressed on the issue during yesterday's Mayor's Question Time. I dare say the "good news" that Boris is keen to announce is that agreement has finally been reached with the mainline TOCs that Oyster Pay-as-you-go will be accepted across all National Rail routes in London (though it's far from clear that the final deal has yet been signed - last minute wrangling is quite possible) - the Mayor will make a massive fanfare of this, and the hope will presumably be that it takes the limelight whilst the fare rises are shoved backstage. Yesterday at a technical group in London heard a person from ATOC say that PAYG on rail in London is going ahead. |
#8
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![]() On Sep 10, 4:09*pm, ticketyboo wrote: On Sep 10, 12:07*pm, Mizter T wrote: Dave Hill refers to Boris saying "Why shouldn't I save up the good news?" when pressed on the issue during yesterday's Mayor's Question Time. I dare say the "good news" that Boris is keen to announce is that agreement has finally been reached with the mainline TOCs that Oyster Pay-as-you-go will be accepted across all National Rail routes in London (though it's far from clear that the final deal has yet been signed - last minute wrangling is quite possible) - the Mayor will make a massive fanfare of this, and the hope will presumably be that it takes the limelight whilst the fare rises are shoved backstage. Yesterday at a technical group in London heard a person from ATOC say that PAYG on rail in London is going ahead. I'm in no doubt that it is - it's just a question of when. January 2010 is when it should go live (well, it should have happened ages ago but that's another story), and I expect in all likelihood it will do - it's just that there's the occasional hint that the TOCs are still quibbling over some of the details. |
#9
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![]() On Sep 10, 7:17*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:07:55 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: On Sep 10, 10:51*am, wrote: [snip] Boris potentially proving yet again that it is actually possibly to make Ken Livingstone seem like a forward thinking intellectual in retrospect. |
#10
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Oh I can see the political risks but I don't think that it is
invincible. There are plenty of people who think kids should pay, that they should walk to school and not use buses, that all kids are.... snip If free travel for teenagers (or other children) were so clearly a "good thing" I would expect it to be common in other large cities, in the UK and elsewhere. Is it? I have made no study of the question but happen to have noticed in recent years that there is not free bus travel for unaccompanied children in New York or Paris. Anyone know the position in other cities for children and teens? Or was it that Ken was the only one marching in step? -- OR |
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