Basil Jet wrote:

the Chancellor over in Bonn.

Er, that's the Plattdeutcsh name for Berlin, obviously.

On Sep 17, 12:39*pm, "Basil Jet"
wrote:

I believe the fundamental difference between a U-Bahn and an S-Bahn is that
people who are unhappy with the U-Bahn should try to kick the mayor out of
the Rathaus, whereas people who are unhappy with the S-Bahn should try to
get rid of the Chancellor over in Bonn. This distinction doesn't really seem
to be the case with the Overground.

ITYM Berlin.

But the distinction *does* exist - the Overground is part of the
national rail network in both countries, including the fares system.
It just happens that the structure of said national rail system in the
UK is different to Germany.

Merseyrail is, I suppose, a similar example of an S-Bahn.

Neil

"Sim" wrote

Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running.

The NLL is 25 kV OHLE between Acton and Camden Road, and between Dalston
Kingsland and Stratford, and will be all the way between Acton and Stratford
once the NLL refurbishment is complete. The WLL switches from 25 kV OHLE to
3rd rail between North Pole Junction and Shepherds Bush. Goblin remains
diesel worked (and if it is electrified it will be 25 kV OHLE.

BTW, the Broad Street to Dalston line, most of which is being incorporated
into the ELL, was originally 4th rail, but IIRC was converted to 3rd rail
before closure.

Peter

On 17 Sep, 10:15, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Sim" wrote



Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running.

The NLL is 25 kV OHLE between Acton and Camden Road, and between Dalston
Kingsland and Stratford, and will be all the way between Acton and Stratford
once the NLL refurbishment is complete. The WLL switches from 25 kV OHLE to
3rd rail between North Pole Junction and Shepherds Bush. Goblin remains
diesel worked (and if it is electrified it will be 25 kV OHLE.

BTW, the Broad Street to Dalston line, most of which is being incorporated
into the ELL, was originally 4th rail, but IIRC was converted to 3rd rail
before closure.

Peter

And all electrified parts of the current London Overground were four
rail at some point, weren't they? Ah, maybe not Dalston to Stratford.

"MIG" wrote

And all electrified parts of the current London Overground were four
rail at some point, weren't they? Ah, maybe not Dalston to Stratford.

nor Kensington Olympia - Clapham Junction (though Willesden Junction HL -
Kensington Olympia was 4-rail from around 1914 to 1940). For completeness,
two other stretches of the LO are electrified at 25 kV OHLE, though used by
LO diesel trains - Barking to Woodgrange Park and through South Tottenham
station.

Peter

MIG wrote:
On 17 Sep, 10:15, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Sim" wrote



Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running.

The NLL is 25 kV OHLE between Acton and Camden Road, and between Dalston
Kingsland and Stratford, and will be all the way between Acton and Stratford
once the NLL refurbishment is complete. The WLL switches from 25 kV OHLE to
3rd rail between North Pole Junction and Shepherds Bush. Goblin remains
diesel worked (and if it is electrified it will be 25 kV OHLE.

BTW, the Broad Street to Dalston line, most of which is being incorporated
into the ELL, was originally 4th rail, but IIRC was converted to 3rd rail
before closure.

Peter

And all electrified parts of the current London Overground were four
rail at some point, weren't they? Ah, maybe not Dalston to Stratford.

I believe the stretch from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone is still
four rail, otherwise Bakerloo passengers would have to get out and
push!

Had a trip from Clapham Junction to Highbury & Islington yesterday
afternoon - a bargain £1.10 with Oyster. Can anyone help with the
following queries?

Why are most LO station name and platform number boards marked with
'This is a temporary sign'? What's wrong with them?

New class 378 S- and 3-car stop signs are also appearing, some of
which are only 2m from the existing signs. I understand that there is
a need to move some NLL station S car stop signs ready for 4-car
operation, but why the mucking about on the WLL?

Compressors on the 313 I rode were incredibly loud, more so than on A
stock. For whatever reason the popping noise that I normally associate
with the driver cutting power is also made when accelerating - I can
rule out third rail gaps as it happens when leaving Willesden Junction
HL. I think Southern will live to regret taking on this fleet!

Judging from comments and queries from other pax e.g. "does this train
go to Camden Road?" overheard at CLJ, I think the assumption that most
pax are doing 2-3 station hops is incorrect. The three other occupants
of my bay from Willesden Junction hadn't left the train by Highbury.
The train - 17:30 ex-CLJ - had plenty of standees but was not crush
loaded. A non-scientific survey, but in conclusion seating in the 378s
will be totally inadequate: was a compromise of 2+1 seating considered?

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Sim wrote:

Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running. Choosing fourth rail would have been (a) very
expensive with no obvious gain [why convert Willesden Junction--
Clapham Junction for example, or indeed the North London?] (b) The
reason for fourth rail on the Underground is the need to run through
metal tubes, which give rise to induction and other problems with
running-rail-return systems (they were tried, and abandoned). No metal
tunnels on Overground routes: the ELL is masonry, of course.

How much of the Met/Circle/District/H&C lines run through metal
tunnel? Why aren't these switched to the 3-rail system?

On 21 Sep, 23:08, asdf wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Sim wrote:
Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running. Choosing fourth rail would have been (a) very
expensive with no obvious gain [why convert Willesden Junction--
Clapham Junction for example, or indeed the North London?] (b) The
reason for fourth rail on the Underground is the need to run through
metal tubes, which give rise to induction and other problems with
running-rail-return systems (they were tried, and abandoned). No metal
tunnels on Overground routes: the ELL is masonry, of course.

How much of the Met/Circle/District/H&C lines run through metal
tunnel? Why aren't these switched to the 3-rail system?

LU power supply, stock movements, shared sections etc?

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On 21 Sep, 23:08, asdf wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Sim wrote:
Some differences between Overground and Underground:
1. Third rail electrification rather than fourth, so not compatible
for through running. Choosing fourth rail would have been (a) very
expensive with no obvious gain [why convert Willesden Junction--
Clapham Junction for example, or indeed the North London?] (b) The
reason for fourth rail on the Underground is the need to run through
metal tubes, which give rise to induction and other problems with
running-rail-return systems (they were tried, and abandoned). No metal
tunnels on Overground routes: the ELL is masonry, of course.

How much of the Met/Circle/District/H&C lines run through metal
tunnel? Why aren't these switched to the 3-rail system?

LU power supply, stock movements, shared sections etc?

Stray return currents corroding metal pipes, pilings, building structures -
lots of potential litigation there -

DW down under