On Sep 17, 8:00*pm, MIG wrote:
On 17 Sep, 19:37, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Anyway, it all seems a rather inevitable course of events! But
inspired by "Basil Jet's" comments in his reply, what other features
do utl-ers think should be on the map (a crowded, busy, non-clean
version if you will)? Heathrow flightpaths? Thames Water Ring Main?
Air quality? Decent minicab firms? High-frequency night bus routes
that mirror Tube lines? The aural footprint of the Bow Bells?

You might think riverbus services, if the Thames is to be reinstated ....
but somehow I think not.
--
Paul Terry

I think pretty well all people do need all of the following to plan
and pay for their journey on the London Underground.

1) the lines
2) the stations
3) the interchanges
4) the fare zones

I don't understand how 4 helps. Most people use Oyster and have some
PAYG balance on their cards, and very few people are going to cancel a
journey because it'll take them out-of-zone and cost an extra 80p.

So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.


Nobody needs

6) Advertising for Ikea

....except in the sense that it provides money for TfL, which keeps
down fares and keeps up service quality.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 18 Sep, 09:49, John B wrote:
On Sep 17, 8:00*pm, MIG wrote:





On 17 Sep, 19:37, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Anyway, it all seems a rather inevitable course of events! But
inspired by "Basil Jet's" comments in his reply, what other features
do utl-ers think should be on the map (a crowded, busy, non-clean
version if you will)? Heathrow flightpaths? Thames Water Ring Main?
Air quality? Decent minicab firms? High-frequency night bus routes
that mirror Tube lines? The aural footprint of the Bow Bells?

You might think riverbus services, if the Thames is to be reinstated ....
but somehow I think not.
--
Paul Terry

I think pretty well all people do need all of the following to plan
and pay for their journey on the London Underground.

1) the lines
2) the stations
3) the interchanges
4) the fare zones

I don't understand how 4 helps. Most people use Oyster and have some
PAYG balance on their cards, and very few people are going to cancel a
journey because it'll take them out-of-zone and cost an extra 80p.

So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

For now, an awful lot of people do use travelcards, including paper
ones for one-day and outboundary and bought at NR stations.

A person on a day trip needs to know what one-day travelcard to get
for their day's outings.

And I think I would get off at the stop before a boundary if my
destination was near the boundary, rather than throw away 80p for the
hell of it.





Nobody needs

6) Advertising for Ikea

...except in the sense that it provides money for TfL, which keeps
down fares and keeps up service quality.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Sep 18, 11:03*am, MIG wrote:
I don't understand how 4 helps. Most people use Oyster and have some
PAYG balance on their cards, and very few people are going to cancel a
journey because it'll take them out-of-zone and cost an extra 80p.

So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

For now, an awful lot of people do use travelcards, including paper
ones for one-day and outboundary and bought at NR stations.

A person on a day trip needs to know what one-day travelcard to get
for their day's outings.

True, but surely the LC map will be their map-of-choice in any case?

And I think I would get off at the stop before a boundary if my
destination was near the boundary, rather than throw away 80p for the
hell of it.

....which is covered by the zone map in the train, so you can make that
decision in real time...

Anyway. I'm really just devilsadvocating here, I do agree that, unlike
the wheelyblobs, the zones are a useful addition to the map.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

MIG wrote in news:88c6b915-df21-423f-a265-
:

On 17 Sep, 19:37, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Mizter T writes

Anyway, it all seems a rather inevitable course of events! But
inspired by "Basil Jet's" comments in his reply, what other features
do utl-ers think should be on the map (a crowded, busy, non-clean
version if you will)? Heathrow flightpaths? Thames Water Ring Main?
Air quality? Decent minicab firms? High-frequency night bus routes
that mirror Tube lines? The aural footprint of the Bow Bells?

You might think riverbus services, if the Thames is to be reinstated ...
but somehow I think not.
--
Paul Terry

I think pretty well all people do need all of the following to plan
and pay for their journey on the London Underground.

1) the lines
2) the stations
3) the interchanges
4) the fare zones

Could we please also have some indication of stations which are not open
all the time the line is running? Clutter or not, I think putting that
info by the station name is clearer than the dagger symbol.

Peter

--
| Peter Campbell Smith | Epsom | UK |

In message
,
John B writes
So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

It's relevant for a lot of people, like me, who live outside London.

For lots of journeys we have a choice of (a) a rail ticket including a
London 1-day travelcard, and (b) a return ticket to London Terminals or
London Thameslink, and then using an Oyster card for the remainder of
the journey. The decision as to which to use depends on the price of
the journey on Oyster - sometimes one is cheaper and sometimes the
other, depending on which zones one crosses. Many of us are not so rich
that even a difference of 50 pence can be ignored.

--
Clive Page

On Sep 19, 7:28*pm, Clive Page wrote:
So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

It's relevant for a lot of people, like me, who live outside London.

....for whom the Tube map is irrelevant, because there won't be one at
your local station, just a London Connections map. So by the time you
see a Tube map, you'll already have committed to one mode or another.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote on 21 September 2009 12:29:07 ...
On Sep 19, 7:28 pm, Clive Page wrote:
So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.
It's relevant for a lot of people, like me, who live outside London.

...for whom the Tube map is irrelevant, because there won't be one at
your local station, just a London Connections map. So by the time you
see a Tube map, you'll already have committed to one mode or another.

This is at least the second time that the London Connections map has
been cited in this thread as the alternative source of zonal
information. As far as I know it isn't issued in pocket form, so if
he's planning his journey at home using the pocket Tube map, he's now
lacking vital information.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 21 Sep, 16:58, "Richard J." wrote:
John B wrote on 21 September 2009 12:29:07 ...

On Sep 19, 7:28 pm, Clive Page wrote:
So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.
It's relevant for a lot of people, like me, who live outside London.

...for whom the Tube map is irrelevant, because there won't be one at
your local station, just a London Connections map. So by the time you
see a Tube map, you'll already have committed to one mode or another.

This is at least the second time that the London Connections map has
been cited in this thread as the alternative source of zonal
information. *As far as I know it isn't issued in pocket form, so if
he's planning his journey at home using the pocket Tube map, he's now
lacking vital information.

It is available in pocket form, just not from LU stations (at least
I've not seen one for a while). It does fold out to a much larger size
than the tube map though.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:47:16 -0700 (PDT), John B wrote:

I don't understand how 4 helps. Most people use Oyster and have some
PAYG balance on their cards, and very few people are going to cancel a
journey because it'll take them out-of-zone and cost an extra 80p.

So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

For now, an awful lot of people do use travelcards, including paper
ones for one-day and outboundary and bought at NR stations.

A person on a day trip needs to know what one-day travelcard to get
for their day's outings.

True, but surely the LC map will be their map-of-choice in any case?

And I think I would get off at the stop before a boundary if my
destination was near the boundary, rather than throw away 80p for the
hell of it.

...which is covered by the zone map in the train, so you can make that
decision in real time...

Anyway. I'm really just devilsadvocating here, I do agree that, unlike
the wheelyblobs, the zones are a useful addition to the map.

Bearing in mind that you're playing devil's advocate, I'm still
surprised that no one has pointed out the need for e.g. the
un/under-employed (i.e. cash-poor, time-rich) to plan the cost in
advance (and maybe decide to take a cheaper option, e,g, bus, instead,
or even not make the journey at all).

They may also need to know the exact cost in advance so they know
exactly how much PAYG credit to add at the start of the journey.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, asdf wrote:

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:47:16 -0700 (PDT), John B wrote:

I don't understand how 4 helps. Most people use Oyster and have some
PAYG balance on their cards, and very few people are going to cancel a
journey because it'll take them out-of-zone and cost an extra 80p.

So, except for holders of paper Travelcards, the information is
irrelevant for both planning and paying.

For now, an awful lot of people do use travelcards, including paper
ones for one-day and outboundary and bought at NR stations.

A person on a day trip needs to know what one-day travelcard to get
for their day's outings.

True, but surely the LC map will be their map-of-choice in any case?

And I think I would get off at the stop before a boundary if my
destination was near the boundary, rather than throw away 80p for the
hell of it.

...which is covered by the zone map in the train, so you can make that
decision in real time...

Anyway. I'm really just devilsadvocating here, I do agree that, unlike
the wheelyblobs, the zones are a useful addition to the map.

Bearing in mind that you're playing devil's advocate, I'm still
surprised that no one has pointed out the need for e.g. the
un/under-employed (i.e. cash-poor, time-rich) to plan the cost in
advance (and maybe decide to take a cheaper option, e,g, bus, instead,
or even not make the journey at all).

They may also need to know the exact cost in advance so they know
exactly how much PAYG credit to add at the start of the journey.

Moreover (or perhaps lessover, YMMV), there is a general principle that
people should be able to tell how much something will cost before they
commit to paying for it. Yes, tube trips are cheap. Tinned tomatoes are
cheap too. How would you feel about Tesco taking the price labels off the
shelf?

tom

--
Know who said that? ****ing Terrorvision, that's who. -- D