On Oct 1, 7:55*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

When this first came up (Neil Williams mentioned it way back IIRC) it was
anticipated to be a relatively large number (was it 7?) of pure Watford -
Euston shuttles.

Indeed. And that is what is needed - to do otherwise is to either run
fresh air north of Watford or have serious overcrowding south thereof.

"SX Southbound
New services: 0633 Bletchley – Euston

Suspect that is a positioning move in service - units are still stored
at Bletchley overnight even though it is no longer a maintenance
depot.

0832 Bletchley – Euston starts Tring 0848

That won't be popular. That one is a favourite "backup train" when
things go wrong north of Bletchley, and it's also popular as a
Bletchley starter. I used it a number of times. However...

New services: 1728 Euston – Watford Junction, 1820 Euston – Milton Keynes

That, OTOH, *will* be popular - the latter appears that it exists to
relieve the chronic overcrowding on the 1824 since it got extended to
Crewe. Though I can't help but think an additional 4 cars on that
service would have been a better option.

Alterations to existing services: 1804 Euston – Milton Keynes extended to
Northampton

That will also help the problem of the 1824.

Neil

On Oct 2, 8:21*am, Neil Williams wrote:
On Oct 1, 7:55*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

When this first came up (Neil Williams mentioned it way back IIRC) it was
anticipated to be a relatively large number (was it 7?) of pure Watford -
Euston shuttles.

Indeed. *And that is what is needed - to do otherwise is to either run
fresh air north of Watford or have serious overcrowding south thereof.

"SX Southbound
New services: 0633 Bletchley – Euston

Suspect that is a positioning move in service - units are still stored
at Bletchley overnight even though it is no longer a maintenance
depot.

0832 Bletchley – Euston starts Tring 0848

That won't be popular. *That one is a favourite "backup train" when
things go wrong north of Bletchley, and it's also popular as a
Bletchley starter. *I used it a number of times. *However...

New services: 1728 Euston – Watford Junction, 1820 Euston – Milton Keynes

That, OTOH, *will* be popular - the latter appears that it exists to
relieve the chronic overcrowding on the 1824 since it got extended to
Crewe. *Though I can't help but think an additional 4 cars on that
service would have been a better option.

Alterations to existing services: 1804 Euston – Milton Keynes extended to
Northampton

That will also help the problem of the 1824.


What's not mentioned is that the 18.24 to Crewe is retimed to 18.29
and that it is now fast to Watford Junction as well. I'm looking
forward to seeing the complete timetable, rather than the edited
highlights, there seems to have been a lot of effort at altering
calling patterns to even out the service.

On Oct 2, 9:04*am, Andy wrote:

What's not mentioned is that the 18.24 to Crewe is retimed to 18.29
and that it is now fast to Watford Junction as well.

Good - though I think there would be a very strong argument for making
it "u" at Watford as well.

(Really, that Crewe portion should logically come off the 1813 fast,
but I can see how that would cause even more of a capacity issue).

Neil

Andy wrote:
On Oct 1, 7:55 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
burkey wrote:
From eWatford Observer 11:30am Thursday 1st October 2009

Five new London Midland trains to carry 1,600 extra passengers from
Watford and Bushey to London Euston from December
By Michael Pickard »
Five new “shuttle services” will serve train passengers in Watford
and Bushey, when a new timetable is launched in December.
London Midland today announced there will be an extra 1,600 seats on
peak commuter services when the new trains begin to run into and out
of London.

These 'new train' numbers don't seem to add up, the LM track access
application only seems to mention one additional Watford Junction
'shuttle' each way, and an extra Bletchley - Euston: I think what
they should have said is three services have been added and some
others altered.

When this first came up (Neil Williams mentioned it way back IIRC)
it was anticipated to be a relatively large number (was it 7?) of
pure Watford - Euston shuttles.

"SX Southbound
New services: 0633 Bletchley – Euston, 0815 Watford Junction - Euston
Alterations to existing services: 0803 Watford Junction – Euston
retimed to depart 0754;
0832 Bletchley – Euston starts Tring 0848, other times unaltered

SX Northbound
New services: 1728 Euston – Watford Junction, 1820 Euston – Milton
Keynes Alterations to existing services: 1804 Euston – Milton Keynes
extended to Northampton


The train alterations are certainly more complex than the story
implies, there also many changes in the calling patterns of services,
for example southbound from Harrow & Wealdstone between ~08.00 and
10.00, there is an extra 'fast' service and a slightly better spread
of services between 08.30 and 09.30:

Current Service, Harrow Departures: 07.57 08.11 08.15 08.31 08.41 -
09.11 09.24 09.54
14 Dec 2009, Harrow Departures: 08:04 08:17 08:23 08:28 08:33 08:54
09:12 09:28 09:54

In the evening, the extra 17.28 to Watford doesn't appear in the
journey planner and the Harrow stop in the 17.04 is moved to 17.14
with no 17.24 service.

I'm not quite certain why more Watford - Euston services are not down
to run, as there seems to be enough empty gaps, on the slow lines,
between trains at the moment.

There is now a DfT press release out, it reckons there are 5 'new' services:

06:33 Bletchley to London Euston
07:57 ?? Watford Junction to London Euston
08:15 Watford Junction to London Euston
17:40 ?? London Euston to Watford Junction
18:20 London Euston to Milton Keynes Central

How does that fit with your understanding of what is going on? The track
access appllication's 0754 and the DfT's 0757 seem a bit close - presume
someone has hit a wrong key...

Paul S

On 2 Oct, 14:12, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Andy wrote:
On Oct 1, 7:55 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
burkey wrote:
From eWatford Observer 11:30am Thursday 1st October 2009

Five new London Midland trains to carry 1,600 extra passengers from
Watford and Bushey to London Euston from December
By Michael Pickard »
Five new “shuttle services” will serve train passengers in Watford
and Bushey, when a new timetable is launched in December.
London Midland today announced there will be an extra 1,600 seats on
peak commuter services when the new trains begin to run into and out
of London.

These 'new train' numbers don't seem to add up, the LM track access
application only seems to mention one additional Watford Junction
'shuttle' each way, and an extra Bletchley - Euston: I think what
they should have said is three services have been added and some
others altered.

When this first came up (Neil Williams mentioned it way back IIRC)
it was anticipated to be a relatively large number (was it 7?) of
pure Watford - Euston shuttles.

"SX Southbound
New services: 0633 Bletchley – Euston, 0815 Watford Junction - Euston
Alterations to existing services: 0803 Watford Junction – Euston
retimed to depart 0754;
0832 Bletchley – Euston starts Tring 0848, other times unaltered

SX Northbound
New services: 1728 Euston – Watford Junction, 1820 Euston – Milton
Keynes Alterations to existing services: 1804 Euston – Milton Keynes
extended to Northampton

The train alterations are certainly more complex than the story
implies, there also many changes in the calling patterns of services,
for example southbound from Harrow & Wealdstone between ~08.00 and
10.00, there is an extra 'fast' service and a slightly better spread
of services between 08.30 and 09.30:

Current Service, Harrow Departures: 07.57 08.11 08.15 08.31 08.41 -
09.11 09.24 09.54
14 Dec 2009, Harrow Departures: 08:04 08:17 08:23 08:28 08:33 08:54
09:12 09:28 09:54

In the evening, the extra 17.28 to Watford doesn't appear in the
journey planner and the Harrow stop in the 17.04 is moved to 17.14
with no 17.24 service.

I'm not quite certain why more Watford - Euston services are not down
to run, as there seems to be enough empty gaps, on the slow lines,
between trains at the moment.

There is now a DfT press release out, it reckons there are 5 'new' services:

06:33 Bletchley to London Euston
07:57 ?? *Watford Junction to London Euston
08:15 Watford Junction to London Euston
17:40 ?? London Euston to Watford Junction
18:20 London Euston to Milton Keynes Central

How does that fit with your understanding of what is going on? *The track
access appllication's 0754 and the DfT's 0757 seem a bit close - presume
someone has hit a wrong key...


There are Watford Junction - Euston trains at 07.56 and 08.15,
currently the only Watford - Euston service is at 08.03 and I don't
think they can describe both services as new. The 17.40 isn't new
either, just a shortening of the current 17.40 Tring, although there
are plenty of other altered services in the evening peak. All the
timings are in the National Rail Journey Planner.

"Andy" wrote in message
...

What's not mentioned is that the 18.24 to Crewe is retimed to 18.29
and that it is now fast to Watford Junction as well. I'm looking
forward to seeing the complete timetable, rather than the edited
highlights, there seems to have been a lot of effort at altering
calling patterns to even out the service.

And it stops at Apsley and Berkhamsted rather than Hemel - wierd.

Vernon in Middlewich.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:17:06 +0100, "Vernon"
wrote:

And it stops at Apsley and Berkhamsted rather than Hemel - wierd.

But not Kings Langley?!

Do you have a copy of the timetable?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Wonder how many people would alight at Queens Park if LM stopped some
services there? If I was headed for Oxford Circus I'd prefer to
change at Queens Park rather than Euston, and would be much better for
people headed for say the Paddington or Charing Cross areas.

On Oct 4, 2:53*pm, london_north wrote:
Wonder how many people would alight at Queens Park if LM stopped some
services there? *If I was headed for Oxford Circus I'd prefer to
change at Queens Park rather than Euston, and would be much better for
people headed for say the Paddington or Charing Cross areas.

Supposedly there isn't capacity to do this, due to the large number of
'extra' trains now running on the slow lines, even at weekends. The
mainline platforms at Queen's Park are used by a couple of early
morning / late evening trains though (this isn't advertised in the
timetable due to possible engineering work, but the stops are shown on
the Live Departure Boards). They are also occasionally used when the
DC lines have engineering work and all four mainline tracks are
available from Euston.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 06:53:06 -0700 (PDT), london_north wrote:

Wonder how many people would alight at Queens Park if LM stopped some
services there? If I was headed for Oxford Circus I'd prefer to
change at Queens Park rather than Euston, and would be much better for
people headed for say the Paddington or Charing Cross areas.

Oxford Circus and Charing Cross are both faster via Euston.

Those who prefer an easier interchange over journey time can always
change at Harrow & Wealdstone.