Going back to the comment about freight, surely a leading question is
''what freight?''.

Time and time again in this forum I see cooments about retaining or
enhancing capcity for freight ... but ... apart from a few routes like
out of Southampton or Felixstowe, there is nothing in the way of
sustained *growing* freight. Yes we get a block train here or a new
flow there, but they are often replacements for something else [that
the media releases conveniently forget to mention] or are short term -
5 years or even 10 years per flow does not justify the serious works
needed to run freight under London.

I agree the issue about LO being operationally NR is a red herring,
but surely it is funded by TfL, and while that organisation does
contribute to the freight deabte, it surely is not in the business of
funding infrastructure work to allow the occasional diverted or short-
cut freight or path. (Obviously its involved where freights *already*
run, and the NLL is a serious freight line.)

On top of I don't see what contribution freight over ELLX would make
at all. Its in the wrong place, and actually trying to path freight to
potential main line junctions would be horrendous.

If one argues that it should be ready for the future, when road truck
diesel oil as run out, and freight swings to rail. But, at that point,
the London passenger rail network will be under such strain that there
won't be freight paths in between passenger trains because buses and
cars won't have fuel either.

I think some people seem to have locked themselves in ''its ex BR''
''ex main line'' therefore it must take freight. But would the same
people suggest freight on the Met and District lines during their
respective upgrades ? And start talking about 92s around the Circle ?
Ditto, Crossrail and Thameslink ?

--
Nick

On 8 Oct, 17:46, D7666 wrote:
Going back to the comment about freight, surely a leading question is
''what freight?''.

Time and time again in this forum I see cooments about retaining or
enhancing capcity for freight ... but ... apart from a few routes like
out of Southampton or Felixstowe, there is nothing in the way of
sustained *growing* freight.


While I can't see much call for freight on the ELL, isn't most such
enhancement intended to get what freight there already is out of the
way so that passenger services can be enhanced?

On Oct 8, 5:46*pm, D7666 wrote:
Going back to the comment about freight, surely a leading question is
''what freight?''.

Time and time again in this forum I see cooments about retaining or
enhancing capcity for freight ... but ... apart from a few routes like
out of Southampton or Felixstowe, there is nothing in the way of
sustained *growing* freight. Yes we get a block train here or a new
flow there, but they are often replacements for something else [that
the media releases conveniently forget to mention] or are short term -
5 years or even 10 years per flow does not justify the serious works
needed to run freight under London.

I agree the issue about LO being operationally NR is a red herring,
but surely it is funded by TfL, and while that organisation does
contribute to the freight deabte, it surely is not in the business of
funding infrastructure work to allow the *occasional diverted or short-
cut freight or path. (Obviously its involved where freights *already*
run, and the NLL is a serious freight line.)

On top of I don't see what contribution freight over ELLX would make
at all. Its in the wrong place, and actually trying to path freight to
potential main line junctions would be horrendous.

If one argues that it should be ready for the future, when road truck
diesel oil as run out, and freight swings to rail. But, at that point,
the London passenger rail network will be under such strain that there
won't be freight paths in between passenger trains because buses and
cars won't have fuel either.

I think some people seem to have locked themselves in ''its ex BR''
''ex main line'' therefore it must take freight. But would the same
people suggest freight on the Met and District lines during their
respective upgrades ? And start talking about 92s around the Circle ?
Ditto, Crossrail and Thameslink ?


I agree that the chances of freight on the ELL are low, as well as the
reasons given above, the design of Phase 1a (the Dalston to Highbury
and Islington section) doesn't have a connection for anything except
running though towards West Coast Mainline. There will be no link
between the ELLX and the Canonbury line to the ECML and there will be
no east facing connection at Dalston, and so the ELL will be the long
way around. Engineering trains may be the only non-passenger trains we
will see on the route.