On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central
London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC?

From within 70 miles out?......FGW, NXEA, NXEC (Peterborough),
SouthEastern, Southern (Brighton), FCC (Cambridge) - more TOCs offer
1st than don't.

Initially brought in by the Met (Only) as a way of enticing police
into an under-strength Met (usually to other SouthEast forces loss) a
few years ago. THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing
to act if necessary.

The abuse of 1st class is akin to using their forces credit cards on
private purchases, even if they make a refund afterwards.

In message
, at
05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris
remarked:
THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing
to act if necessary.

That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a
Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system
to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day).
--
Roland Perry

On 12 Oct, 07:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:13:21 on Mon, 12 Oct
2009, Miles Bader remarked:

Most off-duty police officers will intervene if something "kicks off"
in their vicinity.

... which is far less likely to occur in first class, would you not
agree? How very convenient for them.

Still, something probably happens occasionally. *What they could do is
have a small number of "first class upgrades" available to police
officers and have a lottery to make them available to those officers who
wish to use the service.

Given that these are police commuting to their jobs mainly in Central
London from the suburbs, are there really that many services with FC?
--
Roland Perry

Actually, there's a lot more than there used to be, probably creating
a lot of confusion.

Introduction of 377s and 450s, which probably numerically replace 423s
that were only used in the peaks, has resulted in all sorts of
suburban services being operated by 100 mph, air-conditioned units
with first class, on routes where there are no first class fares.

Punters now have to remember whether the first class is declassified
or else leave bits of the train unnecessarily empty or keep straying
into the first class where it's still classified.

(It's funny how people are squeamish about going into the first class
area even in charter trains where they've hired the whole thing.)

On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris
remarked:

THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing
to act if necessary.

That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a
Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system
to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day).
--
Roland Perry

From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and
never has been. Not sure what the official line really is, but when I
used to commute from Biggleswade a few years back there were two Met
guys that travelled home on the 22.21 / 23.21 off of the Cross who
were never in uniform, but, to their credit chipped in with anti
social behavour issues on a few occasions and ejected people at
Arlesey, which I believe to be a bigger punishment than a penalty
fare.

Fat Richard

In message
, at
07:39:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Fat richard
remarked:
On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris
remarked:

THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing
to act if necessary.

That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a
Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the system
to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day).

From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all and
never has been.

Indeed.

ejected people at Arlesey, which I believe to be a bigger punishment
than a penalty fare.

A cruel and unusual punishment, for sure!
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message
,
at 07:39:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Fat richard
remarked:
On 12 Oct, 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 05:36:46 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Chris
remarked:

THe TOCs 'agreed' if they were in uniform and willing
to act if necessary.

That's wrong, so maybe the rest of what you say is also wrong (a
Detective Chief Superintendent of my acquaintance explained the
system to me, as we bumped into one another on the tube one day).

From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all
and never has been.

In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?

In message
"Willms" wrote:

Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, schrieb "Recliner"
auf uk.railway :

From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all
and never has been.

In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?

On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform,
right?


I don't know about the Met but Hampshire officers tend to change out of
uniform before leaving for home.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

"Willms" wrote in message

Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:12:07 UTC, schrieb "Recliner"
auf uk.railway :

From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all
and never has been.

In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?

On the way between home and their station they might be in uniform,
right?

No, they change in the police station. They may be wearing part of the
police uniform, but would have a civilian jacket on top so that people
don't realise they are police. It certainly also used to be the case
that British soldiers were never seen in uniform off duty (thanks to the
IRA), but that rule may have been relaxed recently.

In article , Recliner
writes


From my experience, the "in uniform" part is not adhered to at all
and never has been.

In fact, surely off-duty cops don't wear uniform?


Surely they're not expected to travel to and from work in civvies and
change into/out-of uniform at their station?
I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be
the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white
chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that
the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago
and things may have changed.
--
Bill Borland

On 2009-10-12, Bill Borland wrote:
I haven't looked closely at a copper recently, but it *used* to be
the case that an essential part of the uniform was a black-and-white
chequered band round the cuff, and merely removing *that* meant that
the officer was no longer "in uniform". But that was a long time ago
and things may have changed.

They certainly have - it used to be the case that a policeman was
never allowed to be out of uniform in public, whether on-duty or not.