"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK.

No, they actually said an Electron Credit card was not available in the UK.
However it would have been more accurate to state that the debit version is
and name the banks that issue it.

I would guess the show was originally planned as an expose of Ryan Air and
money spent and they found nothing new.

Ryan Air is a put it together yourself airline. You don;t pay for what you
dont need.
BA is a full service airline and you get it without asking, and pay for it
even if you do not use it.

I think everyone is imagining what the world was like pre-budget airlines.
My first pay myself flight was Heathrow to Miami off season in the 70s with
BA.

I was open to exact time/date and spent 2 hours in the travel agent trying
to find an available seat. When I got on the BA flight it was less than half
full, the automated messages and information film pre-arrival was on
Auckland immigration procedures.

Now I can book in five minutes and not be bothered with being woken for
meals I dont want.

I dont live near London or Manchester and the budget airlines now offer
choice from regional airports more convenient to those living away from the
two rational hubs.

The flight within Europe is so short that it is the public transport and
airport facilities that dominate the experience. You would be better off
paying to use a private lounge than extra for the flight.

In message , at 08:48:26 on Tue, 13
Oct 2009, Buddenbrooks remarked:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK.

No, they actually said an Electron Credit card was not available in the UK.

On one hand it's very common the refer to all cards (debit, credit and
charge) as "Credit Cards".

On the other hand they were going out of their way to rubbish the
"Electron" option, on the grounds that the cards(sic) were unavailable
and it was therefore cynical for Ryanair to 'pretend' this was a viable
payment method.

However it would have been more accurate to state that the debit
version is and name the banks that issue it.

Cockup or conspiracy?

I think everyone is imagining what the world was like pre-budget
airlines. My first pay myself flight was Heathrow to Miami off season
in the 70s with BA.

They had some footage of "old fashioned jet set".

The flight within Europe is so short that it is the public transport
and airport facilities that dominate the experience. You would be
better off paying to use a private lounge than extra for the flight.

Yep. I'm going to Brussels on Eurostar later today. I've saved more than
£50 by going "economy" rather than "Leisure select" [you don't even want
to know how much full FC costs]. I'll spend the £50 on something better
than an airline meal en-route.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:38:00 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
15:55:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
...there was nothing new or interesting in the programme

It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK. Later they interviewed a lad who had
made several £5 all-inclusive trips, paying by Electron!

I think they said that UK banks don't issue them (whatever they are).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Electron m'lud

Nevertheless, a very soft-hitting documentary. The only thing that
really came through at all was the extent to which they see
vulnerability in others as of benefit to them, eg small airports,
aircraft manufacturers and .

It said they drove a hard bargain with their suppliers. Customers
fretting about this is what's know in the trade as "looking in other
people's pockets". Large numbers of businesses are just as hard-nosed,
and in some respects even worse. I bet Ryanair don't also expect Boeing
to give them an extra discount if all the seats on the plane aren't
filled, but I know of businesses who have models that would be analogous
to that!

I loved the part when MoL required any interview was shown unedited
and when they refused, then went on to manipulate the BBC's guy into
giving him a long advertising opportunity.
IMHO far too many businesses weasel up to the media. It was refreshing
to have someone only deal with them on his own terms.


Interestingly, they didn't allege that Ryanair is slow to pay its bills
(another common characteristic of hard-nosed business). Perhaps that,
and the ability to "sell and forget" is why Boeing (and others) are
happy to do business with them.

... inevitably, cash-strapped families

What are you referring to here? The only "vulnerability" that came up
was the charge for re-printing boarding cards. I agree it's a bit high,
but along with all their other charges, aren't the slightest bit
"hidden". Unlike, for example, the delivery charge I got lumbered with
from Currys last week, which amounted to paying £15 to have them
discharge their WEEE responsibilities (taking away the old TV).

So far as (reprinting) your boarding pass surely any airport hotel has
some sort of cyber cafe that you could log in at and print them from?
Since you need that piece of paper to get through security, then provided
you have time, you could do it yourself for much less than £40 a head.

On 13 Oct, 08:38, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
15:55:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

...there was nothing new or interesting in the programme

It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK. Later they interviewed a lad who had
made several £5 all-inclusive trips, paying by Electron!

I think they said that UK banks don't issue them (whatever they are).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Electron*m'lud

Nevertheless, a very soft-hitting documentary. *The only thing that
really came through at all was the extent to which they see
vulnerability in others as of benefit to them, eg small airports,
aircraft manufacturers and .

It said they drove a hard bargain with their suppliers. Customers
fretting about this is what's know in the trade as "looking in other
people's pockets". Large numbers of businesses are just as hard-nosed,
and in some respects even worse. I bet Ryanair don't also expect Boeing
to give them an extra discount if all the seats on the plane aren't
filled, but I know of businesses who have models that would be analogous
to that!

Interestingly, they didn't allege that Ryanair is slow to pay its bills
(another common characteristic of hard-nosed business). Perhaps that,
and the ability to "sell and forget" is why Boeing (and others) are
happy to do business with them.

... inevitably, cash-strapped families

What are you referring to here? The only "vulnerability" that came up
was the charge for re-printing boarding cards. I agree it's a bit high,
but along with all their other charges, aren't the slightest bit
"hidden". Unlike, for example, the delivery charge I got lumbered with
from Currys last week, which amounted to paying £15 to have them
discharge their WEEE responsibilities (taking away the old TV).


But it's a bit like Oyster, isn't it. They make rules whose sole
purpose is to punish people for breaking the rules. Such people are
vulnerable to making a slight mistake which makes them fair game for
no end of penalties totally out of proportion (we object to this from
banks; what's the latest story on that?).

As for the documentary, there are far better examples that could have
been used, eg a disabled person hanging on a premium rate phone line
to book an essential wheelchair, people refused boarding because of a
bent passport on one flight but then accepted on the next at full
price ... but they pulled all the punches. No doubt those kind of
things are technically deniable, but given that they are why people
really hate Ryanair, there was no point in the documentary if they
weren't going to be included.

Can't see the point of it really. Looking at it along with the
pathetic Watchdog item, I wonder if the BBC is actively promoting
Ryanair on the "all publicity" principle.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:48:26 +0100, Buddenbrooks wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK.

No, they actually said an Electron Credit card was not available in the UK.
However it would have been more accurate to state that the debit version is
and name the banks that issue it.

I would guess the show was originally planned as an expose of Ryan Air and
money spent and they found nothing new.

Ryan Air is a put it together yourself airline. You don;t pay for what you
dont need.
BA is a full service airline and you get it without asking, and pay for it
even if you do not use it.

I think everyone is imagining what the world was like pre-budget airlines.
My first pay myself flight was Heathrow to Miami off season in the 70s with
BA.

I was open to exact time/date and spent 2 hours in the travel agent trying
to find an available seat. When I got on the BA flight it was less than half
full, the automated messages and information film pre-arrival was on
Auckland immigration procedures.

Now I can book in five minutes and not be bothered with being woken for
meals I dont want.

This is something that continually amazes me. That pax feel the need
to eat while flying - even though most flights to holiday destinations
are only 3 - 4 hours max (Spain even less from the S of Eng.) AND they've
just spent an hour or two at departures - with not much to do there except
eat and drink, too.

I dont live near London or Manchester and the budget airlines now offer
choice from regional airports more convenient to those living away from the
two rational hubs.

The flight within Europe is so short that it is the public transport and
airport facilities that dominate the experience. You would be better off
paying to use a private lounge than extra for the flight.

The other thing I got from the programme was that ryanair came in at number
33 out of 42 in a customer satisfaction survey. I want to know which airlines
are worse - so I can avoid _them_!

On Oct 12, 11:55*pm, MIG wrote:

I think they said that UK banks don't issue them (whatever they are).

They said that *credit* cards were not issued on that system in the
UK. Which they wouldn't be, as an Electron card is by very definition
not a credit card. (The whole purpose of it is that it must always be
authorised online, so it is not possible to run up unauthorised debt
with it).

Neil

On 13 Oct, 10:00, pete wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:38:00 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
15:55:42 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
...there was nothing new or interesting in the programme

It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK. Later they interviewed a lad who had
made several £5 all-inclusive trips, paying by Electron!

I think they said that UK banks don't issue them (whatever they are).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Electron*m'lud

Nevertheless, a very soft-hitting documentary. *The only thing that
really came through at all was the extent to which they see
vulnerability in others as of benefit to them, eg small airports,
aircraft manufacturers and .

It said they drove a hard bargain with their suppliers. Customers
fretting about this is what's know in the trade as "looking in other
people's pockets". Large numbers of businesses are just as hard-nosed,
and in some respects even worse. I bet Ryanair don't also expect Boeing
to give them an extra discount if all the seats on the plane aren't
filled, but I know of businesses who have models that would be analogous
to that!

I loved the part when MoL required any interview was shown unedited
and when they refused, then went on to manipulate the BBC's guy into
giving him a long advertising opportunity.
IMHO far too many businesses weasel up to the media. It was refreshing
to have someone only deal with them on his own terms.

Eh? Don't you mean that the media weasel up to advertisers?

This was no exception. The usual free advertising that the BBC gives,
whatever they claim.

In message , at
09:00:13 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, pete remarked:
I loved the part when MoL required any interview was shown unedited
and when they refused, then went on to manipulate the BBC's guy into
giving him a long advertising opportunity.

It was even better when he said he wouldn't be interviewed unless uncut,
and the BBC then proceeded to attempt to prove they wouldn't cut his
interview, by showing that part. Cut.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message
,
at 13:07:28 on Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Hobo Humpin' Slobo Babe
remarked:

...there was nothing new or interesting in the programme

It lost credibility for me when they appeared to claim that Electron
cards were not available in the UK. Later they interviewed a lad who
had made several £5 all-inclusive trips, paying by Electron!

You misunderstood the programme -- it said that Electron credit cards
were not issued by UK banks, not Electron debit cards. The enthusiastic
young traveller had one of the latter.

"pete" wrote in message
...

This is something that continually amazes me. That pax feel the need
to eat while flying - even though most flights to holiday destinations
are only 3 - 4 hours max (Spain even less from the S of Eng.) AND they've
just spent an hour or two at departures - with not much to do there except
eat and drink, too.

It supposedly relaxes people. For many passengers flying can still be a
stressful experience, regardless of statistics. And so if they can pass
their time in the air doing something "enjoyable" they normally do in everyday
life, this can act as a welcome distraction. Whereas some other "welcome
distractions" would be lot more expensive to implement.

michael adams

....