"pete" wrote in message
...

This is something that continually amazes me. That pax feel the need
to eat while flying - even though most flights to holiday destinations
are only 3 - 4 hours max (Spain even less from the S of Eng.) AND they've
just spent an hour or two at departures - with not much to do there except
eat and drink, too.

Ryanair (and other airlines) didn't open the check-in desks until two hours
before departure.

Queuing for check-in, queueing for security, queueing for a paper, a coffee,
a sandwhich, just walking from one place to another, can easily take all of
the 90 minutes you have before you're supposed to be at the departure gate.

Some airports won't tell you the gate number until last minute (so you to
keep your eyes glued to the screens), others have shuttles to the gates, an
unknown quantity to factor for.

You really haven't got time to sit and relax anymore. Getting earlier to the
airport doesn't help when your flight is at 6.30am, as most of mine seem to
be, as you probably don't normally have breakfast in the middle of the
night, and the outlets will be shut anyway.

If you've spent an hour or two with nothing to do, then you've been lucky! I
haven't had that luxury for years.

With a busy time at the other end with baggage, taxis, traffic, all the
hustle and bustle, the couple of hours in the air is an ideal time for
eating and drinking, or would be if food and drinks were good quality and
reasonably priced.

--
Bartc

In message , at 17:27:51
on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, bartc remarked:
Getting earlier to the airport doesn't help when your flight is at
6.30am, as most of mine seem to be, as you probably don't normally have
breakfast in the middle of the night,

That's a good point.

and the outlets will be shut anyway.

Not in the UK, but when I was in Geneva last week they were only just
opening the food joints as the first flights of the day were departing.
The other shops were firmly shut (but they also shut well before the
last flights leave).

If you've spent an hour or two with nothing to do, then you've been lucky! I
haven't had that luxury for years.

It only happens on transfers - I have 4hrs at CDG later this month. Oh
joy.

With a busy time at the other end with baggage, taxis, traffic, all the
hustle and bustle, the couple of hours in the air is an ideal time for
eating and drinking, or would be if food and drinks were good quality
and reasonably priced.

It's all the same quality you'll get at an average Starbucks/Costa/
Nero/Pret on the High Street.
--
Roland Perry

On 13 Oct, 17:05, "Stephen O'Connell" wrote:
pete wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:48:26 +0100, Buddenbrooks wrote:

I dont live near London or Manchester and the budget airlines now
offer choice from regional airports more convenient to those living
away from the two rational hubs.

The flight within Europe is so short that it is the public transport
and airport facilities that dominate the experience. You would be
better off paying to use a private lounge than extra for the flight.

The other thing I got from the programme was that ryanair came in at
number 33 out of 42 in a customer satisfaction survey. I want to know
which airlines are worse - so I can avoid _them_!

**** customer satisfaction surveys! What do they want, a free cigar,
newspaper and a hand job from the stewardess? It's about flying as cheaply
as possible. Generally in life, you get what you pay for. The public amaze
me with their expectations. They'll pay a fiver for a flight and then
expect to be treated like Royalty!

No they don't. No one is insane enough to expect anything so
ridiculous, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's
complaints.

Are you Michael O'Leary?

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot. That's their standard
business model. One might claim that it's the standard capitalist
business model, but that doesn't make it acceptable, and not all
businesses take it that far.

No doubt the seedy strip joint in Soho where the bouncers tell you
that the unpriced drinks you've been ordered were £100 each and you
better hand over your credit card is also following good business
practice. But it's kind of your own fault for going in there. Should
one expect it when using public transport? Apparently so on Ryanair
and Virgin Trains.

No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

In message
, at
13:35:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a "full
anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? [EMT announcement of their
standard policy, earlier today]

No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:09:57 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:35:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a "full
anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? [EMT announcement of their
standard policy, earlier today]

No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction and the "penalty" they
impose if you forget to print or lose your boarding pass. Again, the
charge is vastly in excess of the cost of the service.

On 13 Oct, 22:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
13:35:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a "full
anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? *[EMT announcement of their
standard policy, earlier today]

Rules is only one aspect of it, but in their case it's constantly
changing rules that have no other purpose than to catch people out.


No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

There are loads, but no doubt it's all "chattering".

In message , at
21:47:49 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, pete remarked:
No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

The programme gave two fairly explicit examples. The booking fees, which
are far beyond the actual cost of the transaction

The "mugging" referred to above was about unexpected, or "surprise"
charges. While the credit card fees are somewhat high (it's necessary to
factor in all the costs when buying these fares) they are not
unexpected, nor are they a surprise. Indeed, the very way we are
discussing them here indicates how familiar everyone is with them.

Other outfits charge "booking fees" and/or "Credit Card fees". Why do
cinemas charge *more* for you to buy online and pick up at the cinema,
than if you buy in person? Now that's what I call a surprise. Some train
companies are now charging such fees, so it's not just airlines (and
certainly not just Ryanair amongst the airlines) who charge these fees
for public transport.

and the "penalty" they impose if you forget to print or lose your
boarding pass.

Unlike the much more aptly named "Penalty Fare" on a train if you forget
to bring your ticket, or get on the wrong train? Or hotel vouchers,
which mean you have to pay again if you forget to take them with you?

The paradigm has changed, from paper tickets, to e-tickets, back to
paper print-your-own [1] which Ryanair prefer because to save money they
often use manual systems at the airport. Look on the bright side - at
least it's only £40, not a forfeit of the whole fare.

Just about the only one of their charges which I do object to (I think
it may have been swept aside in the 100% online-checkin scheme) was the
way you could only check in online if you had an EU passport. So other
nationalities couldn't avoid to paying to check in at the airport, even
if travelling only with hand baggage. At least one country apparently
deemed this discrimination illegal, and so the fee was waived when
checking in there, in these circumstances.

[1] They call it a boarding pass, but it's much more like a ticket.



Again, the charge is vastly in excess of the cost of the service.

A pint of cola in a pub costs them about 1p to produce, so there are
many examples of things not being priced on a "cost plus" basis.
--
Roland Perry

In message
, at
15:10:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:
The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a "full
anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? *[EMT announcement of their
standard policy, earlier today]

Rules is only one aspect of it, but in their case it's constantly
changing rules that have no other purpose than to catch people out.

I agree that the rules have changed recently, but were people unaware of
this when booking? Another rule that's changed is the "advance
passenger" information required by the e-borders scheme. At least two
other airlines are threatening to charge a "fine" if you fail to fill it
in before leaving home.

No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

There are loads, but no doubt it's all "chattering".

I saw a headline in the trade press yesterday: "Panorama fails to
'expose' Ryanair" which just about sums it up.
--
Roland Perry

MIG wrote:
On 13 Oct, 22:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 13:35:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a
"full anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? [EMT announcement of
their standard policy, earlier today]

Rules is only one aspect of it, but in their case it's constantly
changing rules that have no other purpose than to catch people out.

Yes you have to be on your toes when booking Ryanair! But I've since used a
far worse website, Ticketmaster:

Apart from exorbitant charges which at least you can choose to pay, there
have details of an insurance product which is disguised to look just like
the Terms&Conditions button surrounded by a block of small print, that you
find on every site. Naughtily, the amount charged to your credit card is
taken separately and never appears on the total presented to you.

A timer counting down the minutes until a timeout puts extra pressure to
complete the form quickly.

Only on the confirmation email is the existence of this policy revealed, but
no details of how much it cost, so you assume it was included in the charges
you've already paid (eg. £7 charges on a £22 ticket). Very underhand.

Ryanair and most airlines I've used do at least tell you how much you will
be charged before you're committed, although it's still quite a shock, after
spending ages choosing just the right flights to suit your itinerary, the
first time you're presented with a £5 per person/each way charge for using a
debit card, at the very last minute!

--
Bartc

On 14 Oct, 09:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
15:10:22 on Tue, 13 Oct 2009, MIG
remarked:

The objections to Ryanair (despite the BBC's publicity for them in
that feeble Panorama) are that they tempt vulnerable people into
situations that end up costing them a lot.

Eh? Like getting on the wrong train by mistake and being charged a "full
anytime fare - no railcard discounts" ? *[EMT announcement of their
standard policy, earlier today]

Rules is only one aspect of it, but in their case it's constantly
changing rules that have no other purpose than to catch people out.

I agree that the rules have changed recently, but were people unaware of
this when booking? Another rule that's changed is the "advance
passenger" information required by the e-borders scheme. At least two
other airlines are threatening to charge a "fine" if you fail to fill it
in before leaving home.

Both Ryanair and Virgin Trains are absolutely ruthless in punishing
minor mistakes with punishments out of all proportion.

Both Ryanair and Virgin Trains brazenly refuse to comply with rules
when they are caught out bang to rights, and authorities have been
shown to be powerless in enforcing any rules.

Other companies may be the same. I find it objectionable; others may
consider it good business. Perhaps it's both.


No one should object to paying a low price and getting something basic
and, as far as I am aware, no one does. But they do object to getting
mugged.

Give an example of Ryanair mugging.

There are loads, but no doubt it's all "chattering".

I saw a headline in the trade press yesterday: "Panorama fails to
'expose' Ryanair" which just about sums it up.


I agree with that statement, although I wouldn't infer from it that
there was nothing to expose. The BBC has a habit of plugging Ryanair
by praising them with faint damnation.