Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:57:55 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote:

"trainmanUK" wrote in message
...
Now that the new wide gates have replaced the old manual ones I notice
a reduction in staff hear the barriers. A couple of time recently at
High Street Ken at about 2000 there have been no staff visible
anywhere.

Are we moving to the Paris Metro situation where the staff can remain
in the office and only come out if there is a problem or are they
reducing the number of staff at stations ?
Some years ago I was with a colleague at La Defense and his ticket wouldn't
work, no one came to his aid despite my shouting in my best Franglais at the
ticket office clerk, and in the end he had to climb over the barrier. Nobody
objected!

Well yes but La Defense is a perfect example of the nonsense of Paris's
fare scheme once outside the central area. The Metro to La Defense is
all flat fare. If you use the RER it is in Zone 2 or 3 and therefore
there are gates to check whether you have a valid ticket [1]. People
moan about London's alleged lack of fare integration but we don't have
that sort of nonsense although Thameslink at Farringdon might get close.

Still I am sure someone will invent a Crossrail premium zone [2]
sometime between now and it opening as a way to screw more revenue out
of passengers.

[1] I, too, once got caught out there but was let out of the gateline
with a gallic shrug by the member of station staff.
[2] in the same way that people invented a new zone for the cross river
section between Island Gardens and Greenwich as a way of creating a
specific revenue stream to pay the "toll" the infrastructure owner
levies on DLR for use of that link. Thankfully Mr Prescott stopped that
particular bit of nonsense before the line opened.

Don't special fares apply between Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone, on the
Bakerloo Line? What's that about?

On Oct 24, 8:21*am, "
wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:26:52 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:58:17 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009,
remarked:
If london had a flat fare system it wouldn't need all this overcomplicated
gate ******** anyway. You'd pay the fare to get through the entry gates with
a token or oyster or whatever and the exit gates could be freely revolving
turnstyles.
A flat fare system that coped with Covent Garden to Leicester Square as
well as Epping to Aylesbury, would be a feat to behold.

They managed a flat fare in New York. You ever looked at the distance between
Times Square and Far Rockaway?

B2003

It used to be a double fare out to Far Rockaway some years ago, though,
wasn't it? How did that work?-

Exiting in Rockaway required a token. Entering in Rockaway required
two tokens.

There was some sort of paper transfer for people who were traveling
within the Rockaways (described here within the last few weeks).

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:21 am, "
wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:26:52 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:58:17 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009,
remarked:
If london had a flat fare system it wouldn't need all this overcomplicated
gate ******** anyway. You'd pay the fare to get through the entry gates with
a token or oyster or whatever and the exit gates could be freely revolving
turnstyles.
A flat fare system that coped with Covent Garden to Leicester Square as
well as Epping to Aylesbury, would be a feat to behold.
They managed a flat fare in New York. You ever looked at the distance between
Times Square and Far Rockaway?
B2003
It used to be a double fare out to Far Rockaway some years ago, though,
wasn't it? How did that work?-

Exiting in Rockaway required a token. Entering in Rockaway required
two tokens.

There was some sort of paper transfer for people who were traveling
within the Rockaways (described here within the last few weeks).

Why did they do that, how long did it last and why did they discontinue it?

In message of Sat, 24 Oct 2009
13:29:48 in uk.transport.london, "
writes

[snip]

Don't special fares apply between Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone, on
the Bakerloo Line? What's that about?

I think you are confused. I have been to Harrow & Wealdstone without
needing to pay a special fare. "Watford Junction (special fares apply)"
is in http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-to-fares-and-
tickets-Zones-7-9-plus-watford-junction.pdf
ISTR stations north of H&W became part of the LU ticketing system when
London Overground took over that line. Trains only take 7 minutes
between Watford High Street in zone 8 and Watford Junction.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:36:45 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

Don't special fares apply between Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone, on the
Bakerloo Line? What's that about?

I think that has gone since PAYG was launched and TfL took over London
Overground.

It's just moved north - special fares now apply between Watford High
Street and Watford Junction.

"Walter Briscoe" wrote in message

In message of Sat, 24 Oct 2009
13:29:48 in uk.transport.london, "
writes

[snip]

Don't special fares apply between Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone, on
the Bakerloo Line? What's that about?

I think you are confused. I have been to Harrow & Wealdstone without
needing to pay a special fare. "Watford Junction (special fares
apply)" is in
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-to-fares-and-
tickets-Zones-7-9-plus-watford-junction.pdf
ISTR stations north of H&W became part of the LU ticketing system when
London Overground took over that line. Trains only take 7 minutes
between Watford High Street in zone 8 and Watford Junction.

The mainline (LM and SN) trains only take that long between H&W and
Watford Junction.

wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:21 am, "
wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:26:52 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:58:17 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009,
remarked:
If london had a flat fare system it wouldn't need all this
overcomplicated
gate ******** anyway. You'd pay the fare to get through the entry
gates with
a token or oyster or whatever and the exit gates could be freely
revolving
turnstyles.
A flat fare system that coped with Covent Garden to Leicester
Square as
well as Epping to Aylesbury, would be a feat to behold.
They managed a flat fare in New York. You ever looked at the
distance between
Times Square and Far Rockaway?
B2003
It used to be a double fare out to Far Rockaway some years ago, though,
wasn't it? How did that work?-

Exiting in Rockaway required a token. Entering in Rockaway required
two tokens.

There was some sort of paper transfer for people who were traveling
within the Rockaways (described here within the last few weeks).

Why did they do that, how long did it last and why did they discontinue it?


It lasted from the opening of the line in the mid-50's until the late
70's. When the fare went from 35 to 50 cents, the Rockaways fare went
from 70 to 50 cents.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

wrote in message ...
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:26:52 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:58:17 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009,
remarked:
If london had a flat fare system it wouldn't need all this
overcomplicated
gate ******** anyway. You'd pay the fare to get through the entry gates
with
a token or oyster or whatever and the exit gates could be freely
revolving
turnstyles.

A flat fare system that coped with Covent Garden to Leicester Square as
well as Epping to Aylesbury, would be a feat to behold.

They managed a flat fare in New York. You ever looked at the distance
between
Times Square and Far Rockaway?

NY's flat fare only worked because geology and history combined to provide a
system that doesn't have the lack of capacity in the central area that is
experienced by London.

If you can imagine London with most of the central zone lines sub-surface
rather than deep tunnel, and express and local services on each route
(especially the east-west routes), then you could start thinking about a
flat fare. Having 2 or 3 large mainline hub termini in the middle rather
than a load of smaller stations scattered around the edge would help as
well.

Dream on ...

D A Stocks

Michael Finfer wrote:
wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:21 am, "
wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:26:52 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:58:17 on Thu, 22 Oct 2009,
remarked:
If london had a flat fare system it wouldn't need all this
overcomplicated
gate ******** anyway. You'd pay the fare to get through the entry
gates with
a token or oyster or whatever and the exit gates could be freely
revolving
turnstyles.
A flat fare system that coped with Covent Garden to Leicester
Square as
well as Epping to Aylesbury, would be a feat to behold.
They managed a flat fare in New York. You ever looked at the
distance between
Times Square and Far Rockaway?
B2003
It used to be a double fare out to Far Rockaway some years ago, though,
wasn't it? How did that work?-

Exiting in Rockaway required a token. Entering in Rockaway required
two tokens.

There was some sort of paper transfer for people who were traveling
within the Rockaways (described here within the last few weeks).

Why did they do that, how long did it last and why did they
discontinue it?


It lasted from the opening of the line in the mid-50's until the late
70's. When the fare went from 35 to 50 cents, the Rockaways fare went
from 70 to 50 cents.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

Why were the Rockaways a double fare zone anyway? Was it because of
distance or to pay the costs of taking over the line from the LIRR?

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:29:48 +0100, "
wrote:

Don't special fares apply between Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone, on the
Bakerloo Line? What's that about?

I think that has gone since PAYG was launched and TfL took over London
Overground.

The answer to your question would be "history and BR and then TOC
intransigence". LUL tried to get rid of that nonsense years ago and was
told to "go away" ever so politely by the "big railway".


What was the difference in fares? Also, was the section between Kenton
and H&W operated by National Rail? What about between Queen's Park and
Kenton?