On Nov 9, 3:35*pm, wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned already , but did anyone see that Inside O=
ut
program the other day which compared the idiotic closures of lines for
maintenance against the regime in Paris where they were converting an
entire line to automatic operation without disrupting the service at all?
Everything was done at night. They compared the can-do attitude of the
people there with the standard issue whinging and moaning of the people
from Tubelines. Sometimes its embarrasing to be British.

e.g. when our media lie that public transport quality / worker
morale / can-do-ism is lower here than in bleedin' France.

I guess they made up the fact that they did all the work at night did they?

Err, no. That just shows that RATP is willing to allow engineering
works to take longer and cost more in exchange for avoiding blockades,
whereas TfL and TL view their core priority as delivering the weekday
peak-hour service and so prioritise the delivery of upgrades as
rapidly as possible, even when that involves shifting people onto
buses, boats and probably cars a bit at the weekend.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:15:13 -0800 (PST)
John B wrote:
I guess they made up the fact that they did all the work at night did the=
y?

Err, no. That just shows that RATP is willing to allow engineering
works to take longer and cost more in exchange for avoiding blockades,
whereas TfL and TL view their core priority as delivering the weekday
peak-hour service and so prioritise the delivery of upgrades as

If TfL and their sub-cons did their job properly then delivering peak hour
services wouldn't be the slightest bit affected by night engineering works
which would be done when the system is closed anyway.

rapidly as possible, even when that involves shifting people onto
buses, boats and probably cars a bit at the weekend.

Yes, because obviously no one works or needs to travel into or through
london at weekends so hardly anyone is affected.

B2003

On Nov 9, 4:59*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:15:13 -0800 (PST)

John B wrote:
I guess they made up the fact that they did all the work at night did the=
y?

Err, no. That just shows that RATP is willing to allow engineering
works to take longer and cost more in exchange for avoiding blockades,
whereas TfL and TL view their core priority as delivering the weekday
peak-hour service and so prioritise the delivery of upgrades as

If TfL and their sub-cons did their job properly then delivering peak hour
services wouldn't be the slightest bit affected by night engineering works
which would be done when the system is closed anyway.

Yes. And they do (do the job properly), and so they aren't
(affected).

But obviously, if you only carry engineering work out at night and not
at weekends, then it takes longer for it to get finished, and so
commuters in the weekday peak have to wait longer for capacity and
reliability improvements.

rapidly as possible, even when that involves shifting people onto
buses, boats and probably cars a bit at the weekend.

Yes, because obviously no one works or needs to travel into or through
london at weekends so hardly anyone is affected.

The difference is, at weekends it might be a pain but the rest of the
network has capacity. In the weekday peak, it doesn't.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 08:12:23PM -0000, Zen83237 wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
wrote:
The Jubilee line is only running between Waterloo and North Greenwich
is
it really worth having it open?
Yes. It provides a vital link across the Isle of Dogs, in turn
connecting
East London to South London without the need to go through the centre.
Doesn't the DLR do that?

Not really. The DLR will dump you in Greenwich, from where you'll have
to get a train to London Bridge to get to pretty nearly anywhere else.
The Jubilee line, on the other hand, will take you directly to useful
places (like London Bridge or Waterloo), and will do it a lot quicker
too.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than
by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields

errrr if you want to go from Isle of Dogs to London Bridge/Waterloo what is
wrong with the DLR to Bank. The poster specified connecting the Isle of Dogs
to south of the river. DLR to Greenwich full fills that. Unless you want to
go the Dome, lets call it what it is, who goes to North Greenwich.

In message , David
Cantrell writes

The DLR will dump you in Greenwich, from where you'll have
to get a train to London Bridge to get to pretty nearly anywhere else.
The Jubilee line, on the other hand, will take you directly to useful
places (like London Bridge or Waterloo), and will do it a lot quicker
too.

Surely National Rail from Greenwich still goes to London Bridge and
Waterloo - it also goes to Charing Cross, unlike the Jubilee.
--
Paul Terry

On 9 Nov, 19:23, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes

The DLR will dump you in Greenwich, from where you'll have
to get a train to London Bridge to get to pretty nearly anywhere else.
The Jubilee line, on the other hand, will take you directly to useful
places (like London Bridge or Waterloo), and will do it a lot quicker
too.

Surely National Rail from Greenwich still goes to London Bridge and
Waterloo - it also goes to Charing Cross, unlike the Jubilee.
--
Paul Terry

Again, only the Jubilee goes to the Greenwich peninsula.

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 07:23:22PM +0000, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes
The DLR will dump you in Greenwich, from where you'll have
to get a train to London Bridge to get to pretty nearly anywhere else.
The Jubilee line, on the other hand, will take you directly to useful
places (like London Bridge or Waterloo), and will do it a lot quicker
too.
Surely National Rail from Greenwich still goes to London Bridge and
Waterloo

Yes. It does it slower than the Jubilee line, less often, and with an
additional inconvenient change. This sub-thread started off with:

The Jubilee line is only running between Waterloo and North Greenwich
is it really worth having it open?
Yes. It provides a vital link across the Isle of Dogs, in turn
connecting East London to South London without the need to go
through the centre.
Doesn't the DLR do that?

My point is that the DLR does a ****-poor job of connecting East London
to South London. In fact, it is only useful for that if you are only
interested in Greenwich or Lewisham. Needless to say, those who live in
Croydon, or Crystal Palace, or Sutton, or several zillion other places
in South London, find the DLR to be about as useful for getting to the
East End as a chocolate bicycle would be.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

My point is that the DLR does a ****-poor job of connecting East London
to South London. In fact, it is only useful for that if you are only
interested in Greenwich or Lewisham. Needless to say, those who live in
Croydon, or Crystal Palace, or Sutton, or several zillion other places
in South London, find the DLR to be about as useful for getting to the
East End as a chocolate bicycle would be.

But it will all be better when the ELL reopens.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 01:57:42AM -0600, wrote:
In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:
My point is that the DLR does a ****-poor job of connecting East London
to South London. In fact, it is only useful for that if you are only
interested in Greenwich or Lewisham. Needless to say, those who live in
Croydon, or Crystal Palace, or Sutton, or several zillion other places
in South London, find the DLR to be about as useful for getting to the
East End as a chocolate bicycle would be.
But it will all be better when the ELL reopens.

Except of course that the DLR will barely touch the ELL. The only
interchange with it will be at Shadwell, and the only other significant
interchanges will be Canada Water (for the Jubilee line) and West
Croydon. A link from the East End to London Bridge is still going to be
useful, simply because it will open up a much wider range of journeys
with minimal changes.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt

Zen83237 wrote:

Unless you want to go the Dome, lets call it what it is, who goes to North
Greenwich.

At least one courier firm has its depot on the pennisula, on the road
leading to the Blackwall tunnel. I've had to trek down there to collect
packages because the useless sods couldn't deliver properly.