On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 20:11:50 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

The main thing that makes it difficult is deciding what to deduct on entry.
obviously a First Class 'National pre pay card' would need to hold a balance
of something over £1000 on journey commencement...

You probably wouldn't need to go that far, because mainline services
would presumably retain on-board ticket inspections, where a
non-validated card would presumably receive a penalty, payable
separately.

(By the same rules, you should charge a £150-ish deposit to anyone
buying a paper ticket at Euston to South Hampstead just in case they
go to Manchester).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 8 Nov, 12:33, (Neil Williams) wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 20:11:50 -0000, "Paul Scott"

wrote:
The main thing that makes it difficult is deciding what to deduct on entry.
obviously a First Class 'National pre pay card' would need to hold a balance
of something over £1000 on journey commencement...

You probably wouldn't need to go that far, because mainline services
would presumably retain on-board ticket inspections, where a
non-validated card would presumably receive a penalty, payable
separately.

(By the same rules, you should charge a £150-ish deposit to anyone
buying a paper ticket at Euston to South Hampstead just in case they
go to Manchester).

It is perfectly reasonable and justified to deduct £1000 on entry, and
also to put up the cash fare for all local journeys to £1000.

The amount is irrelevant. The principle is either justified or it
isn't.

Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.... but if I
were to use a PAYG Oyster card between Balham and Victoria, or Balham
and Shepherds Bush, how much would I be charged? And would it be
cheaper for me to buy an ordinary National Rail return fare if I was
doing a return? (seeing NR turn-up-and-go returns are approx the same
as a single).

Thx
Phil

On Nov 8, 6:11*pm, zzzz wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.... * but if I
were to use a PAYG Oyster card between Balham and Victoria, or Balham
and Shepherds Bush, how much would I be charged? * And would it be
cheaper for me to buy an ordinary National Rail return fare if I was
doing a return? (seeing NR turn-up-and-go returns are approx the same
as a single).

Thx
Phil

Balham - Victoria on Oyster PAYG single is £2.60, £2 off peak.

Anytime day return would be £5.30, off-peak return £4.10.

The single fares charged on Oyster can be found on the TfL "single
fare finder" page at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...t/Default.aspx

~cj

cj wrote in
:

On Nov 8, 6:11*pm, zzzz wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.... * but if I
were to use a PAYG Oyster card between Balham and Victoria, or Balham
and Shepherds Bush, how much would I be charged? * And would it be
cheaper for me to buy an ordinary National Rail return fare if I was
doing a return? (seeing NR turn-up-and-go returns are approx the same
as a single).

Thx
Phil

Balham - Victoria on Oyster PAYG single is £2.60, £2 off peak.

Anytime day return would be £5.30, off-peak return £4.10.

The single fares charged on Oyster can be found on the TfL "single
fare finder" page at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...der/current/De
fault.aspx

~cj

Note that the PAYG definition of "peak" is different from the Southern one,
so if you are starting your journey after 09.30 but coming back in the
evening peak (16.30-19.30) a paper ticket will be cheaper than PAYG.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:33:59 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

The main thing that makes it difficult is deciding what to deduct on entry.
obviously a First Class 'National pre pay card' would need to hold a balance
of something over £1000 on journey commencement...

You probably wouldn't need to go that far, because mainline services
would presumably retain on-board ticket inspections, where a
non-validated card would presumably receive a penalty, payable
separately.

(By the same rules, you should charge a £150-ish deposit to anyone
buying a paper ticket at Euston to South Hampstead just in case they
go to Manchester).

Not really. The issue with PAYG smartcards would be that you could
touch in at Euston, get checked on a train to Manchester (and be found
to have a validated card), then avoid touching out at Manchester (e.g.
use a different ticket at the barriers, or an ungated station, etc).
What fare should you get charged then?

LU deals with this by charging you the maximum possible fare if you
touch in without touching out. Hence talk of a £1000 charge for
mainline services.

In message
s.com of Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:33:18 in uk.transport.london, cj
writes
On Nov 8, 6:11*pm, zzzz wrote:
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.... * but if I
were to use a PAYG Oyster card between Balham and Victoria, or Balham
and Shepherds Bush, how much would I be charged? * And would it be
cheaper for me to buy an ordinary National Rail return fare if I was
doing a return? (seeing NR turn-up-and-go returns are approx the same
as a single).

Thx
Phil

Balham - Victoria on Oyster PAYG single is £2.60, £2 off peak.

That is curious; the corresponding LU fares are £2.70 & £2.20.

Oyster's helpline only explained "National Rail sets its own fares".
I trust an unholy row will start in January.

Both define peak hours as: "Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from
1600 to 1900."


Anytime day return would be £5.30, off-peak return £4.10.

The single fares charged on Oyster can be found on the TfL "single
fare finder" page at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/
farefinder/current/Default.aspx

~cj

--
Walter Briscoe

On 9 Nov, 01:57, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:33:59 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:
The main thing that makes it difficult is deciding what to deduct on entry.
obviously a First Class 'National pre pay card' would need to hold a balance
of something over £1000 on journey commencement...

You probably wouldn't need to go that far, because mainline services
would presumably retain on-board ticket inspections, where a
non-validated card would presumably receive a penalty, payable
separately.

(By the same rules, you should charge a £150-ish deposit to anyone
buying a paper ticket at Euston to South Hampstead just in case they
go to Manchester).

Not really. The issue with PAYG smartcards would be that you could
touch in at Euston, get checked on a train to Manchester (and be found
to have a validated card), then avoid touching out at Manchester (e.g.
use a different ticket at the barriers, or an ungated station, etc).
What fare should you get charged then?

LU deals with this by charging you the maximum possible fare if you
touch in without touching out. Hence talk of a £1000 charge for
mainline services.

But don't forget that on the LU principle, a paper single from
Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road would be £1000 anyway.

How does PAYG Oyster deal with first class travel?

I don't actually see that it can, other than buying a (paper?) excess
ticket.

Walter Briscoe wrote in news:00Nf1
:


Balham - Victoria on Oyster PAYG single is £2.60, £2 off peak.

That is curious; the corresponding LU fares are £2.70 & £2.20.

Oyster's helpline only explained "National Rail sets its own fares".
I trust an unholy row will start in January.


If you think that is bad, try Balham to Sloane Square

Balham (London Underground) to Sloane Square

Cash £4.00
Oyster Peak £ 2.70
Oyster Off-Peak £2.20


Balham (National Rail) to Sloane Square

Oyster Peak £ 3.70
Oyster Off-Peak £3.10

(the latter being the PAYG variant of the National Rail Z3-U1 fare)

It's called "integrated transport"....

David