On 22 Nov, 15:01, "DW downunder" noname wrote:
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in messagenews:01ca656b$31515400$LocalHost@default...



DW downunder noname wrote

Also on the TfL site[2], it's reported that the RV1 (Covent Garden
-
Tower Gateway) is to get five Hydrogen fuel cell buses in 2010.

The very useful project/finance update documents TfL publish on
their site
say that the H2 bus project has been subject to cost escalations
because
the H2 is all imported and the drive trains have had trouble - they
were
going to have 5 fuel cell and 5 internal combustion H2 engines, but
the
latter aren't now happening so the total will be 8 fuel cell plus
two
diesel backups. *IIRC the H2 is made from natural gas anyway, which

implies the carbon is being stuck somewhere.

AIUI, the long term plan is for Hydrogen to be a form of energy
storage for
surplus "renewable" power generated - it's claimed that using surplus
(ie
when the winds blow, the sun shines and the big waves roll all at the
same
time) to produce hydrogen is the cheapest storage medium - more
cost-effective than batteries or pumped storage hydro-electric
schemes. The
claims are made by academics working in the "sustainability" area.
Thus, the
use of methane (ie natural gas) to make hydrogen out of its reaction
with
superheated steam with CO2 as a byproduct can only be a temporary
source
during the extended proof-of-concept of this fuel cell business.
Meanwhile,
the good old simple gas turbine is a proven technology and could work
on a
range of gaseous and liquid fuels, so why the emphasis on fuel cells
leaves
me a little confused.

The problem is that several different methods and combinations are
possible but not yet economically proven. If a economic source of
liquid fuel (say butanol) becomes *available - either synthetic fuel
from nuclear or wind electricty or biological without impacting food
supplies - then hydrogen's handling disadvantages would cause it to
disappear. However until there is an alternative if the energy is from
hydrogen then fuel cells are there and ready to go. Mixing and trying
to match a trial of both "road vehicles fueled with hydrogen" and
another attempt at "gas turbine road vehicles" *is not widely regarded
as clever and nor would internal combustion using hydrogen be either.

--
Mike D

GT only as an internal combustion engine, agreed. GT's very inefficient at
less than about 85% full power.

But a battery-electric vehicle with GT-genset charger would be very future
proofed.

DW downunder- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wright Bus used a compact GT originallly but had to switch to a diesel
to meet Euro 4 CO2 targets.