In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 06:02:31PM -0600,
wrote:

This would also appear to be because the Journey Planner thinks
there will still be a Circle Line service from king's Cross to
High St Kensington on 14 December! Bloody useless!

There will be. It'll just take a long time, going the wrong way roudn
the circle.

Thank you but no thanks.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message of Tue, 10
Nov 2009 18:02:31 in uk.transport.london,
writes

[snip]

This would also appear to be because the Journey Planner thinks there will
still be a Circle Line service from king's Cross to High St Kensington on
14 December! Bloody useless!

I phoned LU CSC after reading Colin's posting. The clerk got back to me
the next day to say the data would be loaded this week. The good news is
that there is now data reflecting the increased H&C frequency on
stations west of Paddington. The bad news is that about 5 minutes
journey time has been added between Royal Oak and Moorgate.

http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...language=en&se
ssionID=0&ptOptionsActive=-1&type_destination=stop&name_destination=MOOR
GATE&type_origin=stop&name_origin=royal%20oak&itdD ate=20091118&itdTime=9
54&itdTripDateTimeDepArr=arr

uses the current data on 20091118 and shows 8-9 minute headways and
journeys of 19-20 minutes.
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...language=en&se
ssionID=0&ptOptionsActive=-1&type_destination=stop&name_destination=MOOR
GATE&type_origin=stop&name_origin=royal%20oak&itdD ate=20091218&itdTime=9
54&itdTripDateTimeDepArr=arr

is the same enquiry on 20091218 and shows 5 minute headways and journeys
of 26-27 minutes.
Both are weekday enquiries at the same time.
YMMV. I have sometimes found journey planner enquiries are not
repeatable. I say nothing about the service.

(A minimum change Bayswater - Baker Street journey on 20091218 shows as
costing 56 minutes.

I guess I shall be back on the phone, tomorrow.
(LUCSC staffs its phones 08.00-20.00)
--
Walter Briscoe

Walter Briscoe wrote in
:


I phoned LU CSC after reading Colin's posting. The clerk got back to
me the next day to say the data would be loaded this week. The good
news is that there is now data reflecting the increased H&C frequency
on stations west of Paddington. The bad news is that about 5 minutes
journey time has been added between Royal Oak and Moorgate.

http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...?language=en&s
e
ssionID=0&ptOptionsActive=-1&type_destination=stop&name_destination=MOO
R
GATE&type_origin=stop&name_origin=royal%20oak&itdD ate=20091118&itdTime=
9 54&itdTripDateTimeDepArr=arr

uses the current data on 20091118 and shows 8-9 minute headways and
journeys of 19-20 minutes.
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...?language=en&s
e
ssionID=0&ptOptionsActive=-1&type_destination=stop&name_destination=MOO
R
GATE&type_origin=stop&name_origin=royal%20oak&itdD ate=20091218&itdTime=
9 54&itdTripDateTimeDepArr=arr

is the same enquiry on 20091218 and shows 5 minute headways and
journeys of 26-27 minutes.
Both are weekday enquiries at the same time.
YMMV. I have sometimes found journey planner enquiries are not
repeatable. I say nothing about the service.


It seems the journey time has been padded for the peaks. Off peak is shown
as 20 minutes, as now. Given the chaotic nature of the service currently
during the peak hour this is unfortunate but not unreasonable.

(A minimum change Bayswater - Baker Street journey on 20091218 shows
as costing 56 minutes.

50 minutes off peak.

In article . 145,
pleasereplytogroup (David Jackman) wrote:

(A minimum change Bayswater - Baker Street journey on 20091218 shows
as costing 56 minutes.

50 minutes off peak.

?Que? That's just three stations, maybe 6 minutes, now.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message of Tue, 17 Nov 2009
23:33:23 in uk.transport.london, Walter Briscoe
writes

[snipped a description that the Journey Planner shows slower services on
the extended Circle line than those which apply now.]

I guess I shall be back on the phone, tomorrow.
(LUCSC staffs its phones 08.00-20.00)

I now have a good reply from LUCSC which I show below:

For some time we’ve had the problem that our timetables assume it takes
trains the same amount of time to make a journey at all times day. In
fact, of course, trains travel more slowly at peak times, as it takes
people longer to get on and off at stations. The increased weight
caused by fuller loadings also has an effect.



New technology has enabled us accurately to measure this variation for
the first time, and we’ve taken it into account when planning the
December Circle line timetable.



The figures provided for 13 December onwards more accurately reflect
differing actual journey times across the day and will therefore
provide a better indication to customers of how much time to allow when
planning their journeys. Conversely, the journey time figures provided
at the moment are broadly reliable at off-peak times, but may vary
considerably from customers’ experience during the rush hour.



So new sample journey times for a Royal Oak – Moorgate journey a



AM peak (0830) – 25-26 minutes

Inter-peak (1300) – 20 minutes

PM peak (1730) – 23-24 minutes

Evening (2130) – 20 minutes

Weekend (Sat, 1100) – 20 minutes



We have recently introduced the same measure on the Northern and
Piccadilly lines, and have seen an improvement in reliability of the
information provided as a result. It should be noted that this measure
is separate to the Circle line route change – it is merely coincidence
that the two are being introduced at the same time.
--
Walter Briscoe

In message , at 15:46:28 on Tue, 24
Nov 2009, Walter Briscoe remarked:
For some time we’ve had the problem that our timetables assume it takes
trains the same amount of time to make a journey at all times day. In
fact, of course, trains travel more slowly at peak times, as it takes
people longer to get on and off at stations. The increased weight
caused by fuller loadings also has an effect.

New technology has enabled us accurately to measure this variation for
the first time,

They've thrown away the sundial and bought a stopwatch?

and we’ve taken it into account when planning the December Circle
line timetable.

Hooray!
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:33:33 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Revised maps etc. at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/13280.aspx

Changing at Edgware Road made to seem like a piece of cake in the
blurb.

If the train destination blind shows Edgware Road, and you want to og
East, get on it but be prepared to get off if it changes to
Hammersmith.

If the blind show Hammersmith toss a coin to decide whether or not to
join the train.. If you then find yourself at the wrong Paddington
station improve your health by taking a long walk to the other staion.
(I hope this an official out-station interchange?)
--
Peter Lawrence

"Peter Lawrence" wrote
If the train destination blind shows Edgware Road, and you want to og
East, get on it but be prepared to get off if it changes to
Hammersmith.

If the blind show Hammersmith toss a coin to decide whether or not to
join the train.. If you then find yourself at the wrong Paddington
station improve your health by taking a long walk to the other staion.
(I hope this an official out-station interchange?)

None of that makes any sense to me at all. Where are you starting from?

"John Salmon" wrote in message
...
"Peter Lawrence" wrote
If the train destination blind shows Edgware Road, and you want to og
East, get on it but be prepared to get off if it changes to
Hammersmith.

If the blind show Hammersmith toss a coin to decide whether or not to
join the train.. If you then find yourself at the wrong Paddington
station improve your health by taking a long walk to the other staion.
(I hope this an official out-station interchange?)

None of that makes any sense to me at all. Where are you starting from?

I think he's suggesting (wrongly, or tongue in cheek?) that all Circle
trains will run with either Edgware or Hammersmith on the front.

But the blinds are definitely being changed en route according to posters
elsewhere. A train leaving Edgware for the inner rail is supposed to be
showing Circle via xxx. A through train arriving at Edgware from Hammersmith
is expected to show Circle via Aldgate AIUI.

Trains leaving for Hammersmith westbound will show Hammersmith - AIUI they
will have displayed this from Liverpool St onwards, so westbound H&C and
CIrcle trains along the top of the circle will all have the same destination
showing.

Paul S

On 10 Nov, 12:34, "Paul Scott" wrote:
But the blinds are definitely being changed en route according to posters
elsewhere. A train leaving Edgware for the inner rail is supposed to be
showing Circle via xxx. A through train arriving at Edgware from Hammersmith
is expected to show Circle via Aldgate AIUI.

Trains leaving for Hammersmith westbound will show Hammersmith - AIUI they
will have displayed this from Liverpool St onwards, so westbound H&C and
CIrcle trains along the top of the circle will all have the same destination
showing.

As a "union guy" once memorably observed (about something totally
different) "that's all very well on paper but it'll never work in
theory".
If we are relying on train operators memories/willpower to manually
wind blinds at intermediate locations such as Liverpool Street I think
we may be a bit optimistic in imagining it will actually happen with
much consistancy.

--
gordon