On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:41:10 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

A "discount" compared with cash fares they've increased to coerce you
to use Oyster? No thanks.

A quid for a bus fare is cheaper than most other cities in the UK, so
that at least is a discount. Two quid, the price of a paper ticket
(not seen one sold in ages), is nearer the mark for a journey of
substantial length. (It's 1.70 in MK, for example, and I believe
that's at the low end).

(I know it's going up to 1.20 next year, but I expect the MK fare will
probably go to 1.80 or 1.90 before too long.)

Has anyone noticed, incidentally, that the paper One Day Bus Pass is
being / has already been abolished in favour of Oyster?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:08:07 -0800 (PST), Chris
wrote:

But most of us here I'm sure will be loading an OEP 'just in case' for
future use, so will always have oner ready to use as they don't expire.

Which takes me back to my original point. If most people will indeed
do that (I would if I had a Travelcard on Oyster), why not just make
it the default position, avoidable by those who insist by not having
any PAYG balance on your card?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 30 Nov, 19:56, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 00:48:42 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Didn't mean the comments to follow necessarily. *It ought to pay
interest anyway. *It's a system for us to lend our money up front and
use it later

Do you "lend" your money to your wallet? *It's an electronic wallet,
and one in which there's no need to have large balances.

I wouldn't pay for a wallet. Money is in my pocket between taking it
out of the machine and spending it, not in TfL's bank account. Money
in my pocket can be spent on anything I like.


along with a whole new assumption of guilt

Eh? *It means that you cannot be PFed if you are within the TfL area,
on traditional PAYG at least.

You are assumed to be travelling the maximum possible distance unless
you can prove that you didn't (by touching out, having OEP etc). No
such assumption applies to paper travelcards with limited zones.


It's supposed to make everything more convenient, but in practice what
we really get is all other fares put up to coerce us to use this
system where we lend our money up front, but for practical reasons
that involves far more inconvenience and complication when we have to
mix systems to get the best deal.

Must admit I don't like the "premium-isation" of paper tickets. *I'd
have used an Oyster even without it - it's just more convenient.
Arriva have just introduced mobile phone ticketing across their bus
networks - I'll use this because it's more convenient than fumbling
for change. *(It's quite well-implemented, though the driver on my way
home was a bit perplexed by it as it was the first one he'd seen - it
was only introduced a week or two ago).

The =A33, which almost no one is ever going to claim back, is like a
bank charge for having an account at all. *Most banks offer
inducements to get you to lend them their money.

The gbp3 is a charge for purchasing the card, just like buying a
wallet to hold it in. *The card does cost a couple of quid at least -
contactless smartcards are not as cheap as you'd think. *And the
charge brings environmental benefits - without it, just like free
newspapers[1], you'd see them all over the floor.

Not many shops charge me extra if I pull my cash out of a wallet other
than theirs, and also charge me for their wallet.


A number of other countries with similar systems don't even offer the
ability to get the money back.

Somewhere is worse. Well that's all right then.



[1] A lot less so with the Standard, it has to be said. *I suspect
that's because it's actually worth taking it with you to finish it
off, unlike the erstwhile Lite and London Paper, both of which could
be read cover to cover in their entirety quite easily between Aldgate
and Euston Square.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Has anyone noticed, incidentally, that the paper One Day Bus Pass is
being / has already been abolished in favour of Oyster?

So how does someone get one from a bus stop ticket machine?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Chris wrote:

But most of us here I'm sure will be loading an OEP 'just in case' for
future use, so will always have oner ready to use as they don't expire.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood but surely the OEP will start working
whenever we touch in?

(BTW will OEPs be available from TfL ticket machines? Or will we have to
queue up for the ticket office for them?)

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:53:36 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Has anyone noticed, incidentally, that the paper One Day Bus Pass is
being / has already been abolished in favour of Oyster?

So how does someone get one from a bus stop ticket machine?

One doesn't.

I can't see those machines lasting, TBH. There are plenty of cities
where you can't buy a ticket at the point of use for bus travel and
have to go to, say, a newsagent.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:53:36 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Has anyone noticed, incidentally, that the paper One Day Bus Pass is
being / has already been abolished in favour of Oyster?

So how does someone get one from a bus stop ticket machine?

One doesn't.

I can't see those machines lasting, TBH. There are plenty of cities
where you can't buy a ticket at the point of use for bus travel and
have to go to, say, a newsagent.

That was why we never used a bus in Warsaw. Impossible for tourists
without Polish.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 30 Nov, 13:25, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, MIG wrote:
On 30 Nov, 06:43, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:25:42 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
So Oyster would be a bank. *It ought to pay interest.

Most current accounts don't.

Didn't mean the comments to follow necessarily. *It ought to pay
interest anyway. *It's a system for us to lend our money up front and
use it later along with a whole new assumption of guilt, and now huge
inconveniences, thrown at us.

Have you considered moving to a city where the public transport ticketing
arrangements don't bring you to the brink of seizure on a daily basis?

I like Oyster. It's made things more convenient for me.

It may have the potential to make things convenient for everyone if
properly thought through and with the advantages and disadvantages
openly and honestly discussed and with no coercion.

On Dec 1, 9:57*am, MIG wrote:

It may have the potential to make things convenient for everyone if
properly thought through and with the advantages and disadvantages
openly and honestly discussed and with no coercion.

Just to add fuel to the flames, Southern have provided some clear and
unambiguous guidance (!) on this page:

http://www.southernrailway.com/ticke...s/oyster-card/

"If you already have a Travelcard but want to use your Oyster card
outside the zones covered by the Travelcard you might need to get an
Oyster Extension Permit before you travel. If you travel with an
Oyster extension Permit you might be liable to a Penalty fare or even
prosecution."

Could they possibly mean 'If you travel *without* an Oyster extension
Permit'? And don't you just love that 'you *might* need to get...'

Rupert Candy wrote:

Just to add fuel to the flames, Southern have provided some clear and
unambiguous guidance (!) on this page:

http://www.southernrailway.com/ticke...s/oyster-card/

"If you already have a Travelcard but want to use your Oyster card
outside the zones covered by the Travelcard you might need to get an
Oyster Extension Permit before you travel.

'Might' is correct in that context really, because the requirement for an
OEP only applies if you are extending FROM your travelcard's zones, as far
as we can make out. As an example, if you had a season that covered only
zones 1 and 2, a touch in in zone 4 to travel to zone 6, or back to zone 1,
wouldn't need an OEP.

...If you travel with an
Oyster extension Permit you might be liable to a Penalty fare or even
prosecution."

Shocking error that bit...

Paul S