On Nov 20, 12:49*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes

They're a cunning plan by the TOCs to make PAYG a pain in the arse to
use even when they, strictly speaking, accept PAYG.

Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.

It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and
you want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

That's my understanding too. It will be interesting to see how well they get
that important message across when the official announcements start...

Paul S

It would appear that some official information is already available on
OEP and other NR PAYG matters.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

--
Paul C
via Google.

In message , David
Cantrell writes

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:34:31PM +0000, Paul Terry wrote:

Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.
It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

Like I said, complicated rules that normal people can't be expected to
remember or understand.

In what way is it more complicated than the present system, which
requires people to remember to purchase an extension ticket if they wish
to travel beyond the zones they have paid for?
--
Paul Terry

It would appear that some official information is already available on
OEP and other NR PAYG matters.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

--
Paul C
via Google.

One paragraph on that link reads:

If you use pay as you go on the above National Rail services, an entry
charge of up to £6.50 will be deducted from your Oyster card when you touch
in at the start of your journey. When you touch out, the charge will be
adjusted so that you only pay the advertised Oyster single fare for the
journey you have just made.

I read that to imply that I can only buy a single ticket on PAYG. If I
make a return journey between the same pair of stations I will be charged
another single rather than a return (e.g. right now - 1453 on 24 Nov) single
Chiswick/Clapham Junction is £2.10 return 3.10 so with PAYG I'll pay £1.00
more than if I buy a "real" ticket.

On 24 Nov, 13:43, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:34:31PM +0000, Paul Terry wrote:
Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.
It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.
Like I said, complicated rules that normal people can't be expected to
remember or understand.

In what way is it more complicated than the present system, which
requires people to remember to purchase an extension ticket if they wish
to travel beyond the zones they have paid for?

In that if you don't get gripped and touch out, you'll presumably be
charged the correct fare, so it's only about getting gripped within a
specific range of locations (and I don't expect the grippers to
understand it either).

Someone might do that for months without a problem.

In message , Graham Harrison
writes

I read that to imply that I can only buy a single ticket on PAYG. If
I make a return journey between the same pair of stations I will be
charged another single rather than a return (e.g. right now - 1453 on
24 Nov) single Chiswick/Clapham Junction is £2.10 return 3.10

If you were currently allowed to use PAYG for that journey, the cost
would be £1.10 each way. In 2010, when you will be allowed to use PAYG,
the cost will be £1.30 each way, or £2.60 return.

So, if you currently pay £3.10 for an off-peak day return ticket, you
will be 50p a day better off using PAYG.

so with PAYG I'll pay £1.00 more than if I buy a "real" ticket.

I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion. A single journey
on PAYG across two zones (excluding zone 1) will be £1.30 next year. And
it's the same even if you travel at peak times, unlike your current
ticket.

--
Paul Terry

In message
, MIG
writes

On 24 Nov, 13:43, Paul Terry wrote:

In what way is it more complicated than the present system, which
requires people to remember to purchase an extension ticket if they wish
to travel beyond the zones they have paid for?

In that if you don't get gripped and touch out, you'll presumably be
charged the correct fare, so it's only about getting gripped within a
specific range of locations (and I don't expect the grippers to
understand it either).

But how does that make an OEP more complicated than buying a zone
extension ticket?

If all that you are saying is that grippers won't understand an OEP, how
is it that they've managed to learn what a zone extension ticket is?

--
Paul Terry

On 24 Nov, 17:04, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
, MIG
writes

On 24 Nov, 13:43, Paul Terry wrote:
In what way is it more complicated than the present system, which
requires people to remember to purchase an extension ticket if they wish
to travel beyond the zones they have paid for?
In that if you don't get gripped and touch out, you'll presumably be
charged the correct fare, so it's only about getting gripped within a
specific range of locations (and I don't expect the grippers to
understand it either).

But how does that make an OEP more complicated than buying a zone
extension ticket?

If all that you are saying is that grippers won't understand an OEP, how
is it that they've managed to learn what a zone extension ticket is?

My experience is that they don't understand much at all, least of all
ticket validity.

I've had an SWT gripper scrawl over an all-zones day travelcard and
claim it can only be used for one return journey between Richmond and
Twickenham.

It is within the bounds of possibility that the same gripper, on
having OEPs explained, would try to PF anyone with a travelcard and no
OEP.

In message
, MIG
writes

My experience is that they don't understand much at all, least of all
ticket validity.

I've had an SWT gripper scrawl over an all-zones day travelcard and
claim it can only be used for one return journey between Richmond and
Twickenham.

That's extraordinary. I frequently used one-day travel cards on that
line over a period of more than 30 years and never had the slightest
problem.

It is within the bounds of possibility that the same gripper, on
having OEPs explained, would try to PF anyone with a travelcard and no
OEP.

If they're that dense, I doubt that they would even be able to tell that
the Oyster was loaded with a travelcard, let alone that the passenger
was out of zone.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:

Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.

It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

Yes but if you have the season/travelcard already on it's difficult to use
PAYG. For instance if I have a Zones 1-3 travelcard and want to go Forest
Gate (Z3) to Ilford (Z4) I *can't* just use PAYG - I will *have* to get an
OEP which won't be available at my local starting station. And no doubt the
paper extension fare will be whacked up to punish me for not buying
something unavailable to me.

In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes

It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

Yes but if you have the season/travelcard already on it's difficult to use
PAYG. For instance if I have a Zones 1-3 travelcard and want to go Forest
Gate (Z3) to Ilford (Z4) I *can't* just use PAYG - I will *have* to get an
OEP which won't be available at my local starting station.

Agreed - you'd have to go to the Oyster shop just opposite the station.
OTOH, you can add the OEP at any time and from any convenient place that
supplies it - it costs nothing and it remains there to use for whenever
you want it.

But I suspect that NR ticket offices in the London area will eventually
provide the full range of Oyster services - it would be madness not to
do so.

And no doubt the paper extension fare will be whacked up to punish me
for not buying something unavailable to me.

It's not "unavailable" unless you can't cross the road to the Oyster
shop, and I've not seen any evidence in the 2010 fares tables of zone
extension tickets being "whacked up".
--
Paul Terry