Neil Williams wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an extension to
my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch out at Epsom so how
do I touch out. (And even if I can get special dispensation to enter through
the barriers without touching in, I may well not be on an Epsom train for
all of the journey, but instead changing at Sutton.)

2). I come home in the peak hours to a station where all passengers have to
squeeze through a narrow hallway where there will only be a couple of
readers at the side. It is completely unrealistic to expect everyone in peak
hours to stop to touch out on such limited facilities without serious
problems. There will be tensions with people who are slow, everyone will
have just spent four minutes literally ram packed into poorly laid out
carriages where tempers do get frayed (and it's only the sardine effect that
stops people being able to swing a punch) and there will be crowds stuck on
the staircase up from the platform. I can seriously envisage some people in
a hurry taking a risk and walking across the mainline tracks in the dark to
use readers on a quiet platform which has an exit directly onto the street.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an extension to
my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch out at Epsom so how
do I touch out. (And even if I can get special dispensation to enter
through the barriers without touching in, I may well not be on an Epsom
train for all of the journey, but instead changing at Sutton.)

Bad example Epsom is irrelevant to the 'OEP discussion' because it is
outside the zones. You'll have to do exactly what you do already - ie buy a
ticket?

Paul S

On 27 Nov, 11:44, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message

...

Neil Williams wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an extension to
my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch out at Epsom so how
do I touch out. (And even if I can get special dispensation to enter
through the barriers without touching in, I may well not be on an Epsom
train for all of the journey, but instead changing at Sutton.)

Bad example Epsom is irrelevant to the 'OEP discussion' because it is
outside the zones. You'll have to do exactly what you do already - ie buy a
ticket?

Paul S

This was following on from a suggestion for doing away with the OEP by
making touching compulsory for any Oyster use.

However, I've suggested that could only be enforced by eg PFing a
travelcard holder for not touching, despite having a valid ticket.
Tim has pointed out that it's not always physically possible to touch
anyway.

His example is the same as any situation where you currently have to
get off and wait for the next train (an hour later maybe) to be able
to extend after using PAYG, but at least you don't have to do that as
an additional validation for travelcards (yet).

On Nov 27, 11:44*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message

...

Neil Williams wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an extension to
my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch out at Epsom so how
do I touch out. (And even if I can get special dispensation to enter
through the barriers without touching in, I may well not be on an Epsom
train for all of the journey, but instead changing at Sutton.)

Bad example Epsom is irrelevant to the 'OEP discussion' because it is
outside the zones. You'll have to do exactly what you do already - ie buy a
ticket?

No, you're missing the point. If I have a z12 Travelcard on Oyster,
and I want to go to Epsom, then I can buy a BZ2-Epsom ticket from a NR
ticket office.

Under your "touching out is mandatory for Travelcard users" model, I'd
be penalised for doing this, because I'd have touched in at Waterloo
and wouldn't have touched out anywhere.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:
On Nov 27, 11:44 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message

...

Neil Williams wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an
extension to my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch
out at Epsom so how do I touch out. (And even if I can get special
dispensation to enter through the barriers without touching in, I
may well not be on an Epsom train for all of the journey, but
instead changing at Sutton.)

Bad example Epsom is irrelevant to the 'OEP discussion' because it is
outside the zones. You'll have to do exactly what you do already -
ie buy a ticket?

No, you're missing the point. If I have a z12 Travelcard on Oyster,
and I want to go to Epsom, then I can buy a BZ2-Epsom ticket from a NR
ticket office.

Under your "touching out is mandatory for Travelcard users" model, I'd
be penalised for doing this, because I'd have touched in at Waterloo
and wouldn't have touched out anywhere.

That was Neil Williams' idea, I was really just (confusingly as it turned
out) pointing out Epsom was beyond the boundary...

Paul S

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:41:58 -0800 (PST), John B
wrote:

Under your "touching out is mandatory for Travelcard users" model, I'd
be penalised for doing this, because I'd have touched in at Waterloo
and wouldn't have touched out anywhere.

No, because you'd mark the BZ tickets as "only valid with Oyster card
number N" and make them open the barriers at both ends, so you
wouldn't touch your Oyster at all.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009, Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:41:58 -0800 (PST), John B
wrote:

Under your "touching out is mandatory for Travelcard users" model, I'd
be penalised for doing this, because I'd have touched in at Waterloo
and wouldn't have touched out anywhere.

No, because you'd mark the BZ tickets as "only valid with Oyster card
number N" and make them open the barriers at both ends, so you wouldn't
touch your Oyster at all.

So you'd actually be buying a single, and paying for it with your oyster
card. Sounds sensible.

tom

--
.... a tale for which the world is not yet prepared

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:38:02 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

So you'd actually be buying a single, and paying for it with your oyster
card. Sounds sensible.

Yep, or a return. To prevent it being given to someone else, it'd
have the relevant Oyster card number printed on it.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 29 Nov, 18:53, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:38:02 +0000, Tom Anderson

wrote:
So you'd actually be buying a single, and paying for it with your oyster
card. Sounds sensible.

Yep, or a return. *To prevent it being given to someone else, it'd
have the relevant Oyster card number printed on it.

Neil

So Oyster would be a bank. It ought to pay interest.

Paul Scott wrote:

Or just enforce that touching in and out
is mandatory regardless of what's on your card.

Then explain how you'd handle the following situations:

1). I sometimes visit my parents in Epsom, for which I get an extension
to my existing season ticket. I will not be able to touch out at Epsom so
how do I touch out. (And even if I can get special dispensation to enter
through the barriers without touching in, I may well not be on an Epsom
train for all of the journey, but instead changing at Sutton.)

Bad example Epsom is irrelevant to the 'OEP discussion' because it is
outside the zones. You'll have to do exactly what you do already - ie buy
a ticket?

I buy an extension (and *really* hate the queues to do so) but still have to
touch in when entering at the London end. If it was compulsory to *always*
touch in I'd end up with penalties for not touching out when it's not
possible to do so at my extended destination.